A little while back, Pat Ogden, PhD was talking about resentment, and she made a key distinction.
You see, there’s resentment that stems from an event that is now over. But then there’s resentment fueled by something that’s ongoing – like systemic oppression.
So how does this impact the way she works, particularly with members of marginalized communities who continue to suffer systemic injustice?
In the video below, Pat will get into why she addresses her white privilege head on with clients from marginalized communities, and share the exact language she uses – with two very important cautions. Have a listen.
Click here for full transcript
Now we’d like to hear from you. What are your biggest takeaways from the video? Please let us know with a comment below.
If you found this helpful, here are a few more resources you might be interested in:
Moving from Cultural Competence to Antiracism
When Staying Neutral Isn’t the Best Approach
Working with the Trauma of Racism
Very insightful and helpful.
Thank you.
Thank you for this.
As a privileged white woman, I am trying to learn how to communicate with other PWW. I want to be part of real change.
BLACK LIVES MATTER
Very helpful thoughts on how to approach working with people of color with those of us who are of a different culture. “cards on the table” talking about “the elephant in the room.” Thank you.
I did an Aboriginal studies submajor with my psych degree. Here is what I wrote for one course about coming to understand my white privilege.
This process was initially challenging and did cause me some discomfort and my first internal reaction was that I do not feel particularly privileged because of various experiences throughout my life. However, through the facts presented in this course, including in the readings, discussions, the film ‘The Color of Fear’ (1994) and the exercise ‘because I am white…’ I now understand and respect what white privilege means. I am aware and now know that ‘white privilege is an institutional (rather than personal) set of benefits granted to those of us who by race resemble the people who dominate the powerful positions in our institutions’ (Kendall 2001, p. 1). As Kendall (2001) goes on to discuss, white privilege is not related to whether I am a good person or not, it is something I am born with, something that I cannot ‘give away’ and something that means that I do not have to think about my ‘race’ if I so choose.
I have realised the power and invisibility of white privilege and how that is something I have not consciously had to think about every day, and of course there are things I don’t have to think about on a daily basis. As McIntosh (1990) outlined, the things I do not have to think or worry about everyday are many and include the numerous situations where judgements about my behaviour or appearance will not be made because of my ‘race’. For example, I can be confident that I can go into a shop and ‘not be followed or harassed’ because of my ‘race’, that I will not be pulled over by police because of my ‘race’ and that I can rent or buy a house in an area of my choosing (McIntosh 1990), or as Sharon (Gollan 2009) related, I can walk from my front door to my car and not be questioned by police as to what I was doing in my own front yard.
I am consciously aware that by understanding the power of my white privilege I am accountable for my actions (McIntosh 1990). Examining and thinking about my white privilege in the context of colonisation and subsequent treatment of Aboriginal people, I acknowledge where I stand within that context as a white person, both individually and professionally. I will now be thinking differently about my position as a representative of the dominant culture in my future role as a psychologist. I recognise the position of power that psychology has had historically and how psychology was complicit in perpetuating the racist Social Darwinist ideology and discourse that underpinned the treatment of Aboriginal people, particularly the removal of Aboriginal children (Dudgeon 2006).
Very interesting and sensible talk by an efficient, educated therapist. Definitely good points to remember.
Thank you.
Her assumption that all white people have privilege is infuriating to me.I had freckles as a child and was tortured by others for that trait. I was sexual assaulted as a child.My family lived in poverty. Teachers in my school were abusive. Many, many white people have not Experienced her “White Privilege” life. I feel she is blaming white people for the reality of many minorities from her perch, that isn’t the reality of many white people.I have never now or in the past seen myself from her lens of privilege.
You see so many black people endured all that you have endured yet they also suffer because of the color of their skin. To not understand that is white privilege. This comment is white privilege.
All that you have endured is Indeed heart rendering but add to that racial prejudice, systemic racism, oppression because of the color of your skin and see how even more difficult your life would be.
To not get that is your white privilege that’s why you need to educate yourself more. Have the conversation and this is a good place to start.
Hi Marie,
I hear a lot of pain for you in your childhood and I am sorry to hear that there were so many difficulties. The language that is used of “white privilege” can be very provoking for white people who have had social disadvantages or been abused. For myself, hearing the word privilege associated with the colour of my skin provoked deep hurt, confusion and anger, because it seemed to discount the suffering I had experienced within this white skin.
It’s tricky, because there is truth to what is being said. Having white skin does support an advantage in some societies. I continue to work through the pain of my own suffering and gradually I find the words white privilege do not provoke the strong emotions they did in the past. Part of this has been because I have done some study in the area as well.
Your pain and suffering, your childhood experiences are all real.
The simple fact that your skin is not brown means that you were not, are not treated like a brown skinned person. If you have a son, you don’t have to explain to him how he could be shot dead because of the color or his skin. Your white husband can jog in your neigjborhood without being stopped and questioned as to why he is there. No one is saying that your life hasn’t been hard. The white privilege that is real, is real for you too. It doesn’t matter how poor you grew up. It has nothing to do with you being sexually assaulted as a child. That’s very sad. You and I have never been treated unfairly because of the color of our skin. I was a freckle faced red head. I understand being teased as a child. I hope you have a good life.
This is in response to Brenda Stephe, I hear you. As a multicultural person, I think that making someone’s experience about skin color misses the point entirely. The whole “white privilege” and “white guilt” thing sustains the race problem.
“Colonizer” is microaggresion. So we see one traumatized population and equalize it by traumatizing another one? That doesn’t make sense.
And making a pale person the “expert” on white privilege is another thing that baffles me. This is all so strange people. Wake up. We’re all HUMANS. The problem is not seeing each other as HUMANS. Yes, culture matters. It’s a beautiful thing that is healthy when honored and understood. So we’re not all the same, but we are equal. If we embraced that, wouldn’t that cover it? It’s not that difficult.
Love everyone.
Face your insecurities.
Speak up when you see people hurting people.
Done.
Thank you for these valuable pertinent reflection on white privileged therapist and the caution that comes with it.
Hugely appreciated.
I am grateful for this guidance. I am a white woman of privilege and recently had a session with an African American woman seeking to unpack her personal experience in her marriage to an African American man with whom she is also in couples therapy. Because of the last week of events, I asked her if she needed to talk about her experience as a black person: a girl, a woman, a mother, wife and a professional. She said “not really” at first, then ended up sharing one experience of micro-aggression after another in her life. Her attitude had always been to minimize and take care of others by not complaining because overall, her life has been pretty good. It seemed unseemly to her and did not change anything. Since we had been addressing issues of self-care, and her tendency to push away her feelings. I told her I was happy to be a supportive listener of her “indulging” herself in this way if she wanted to. She did, and reported, “This was good, I guess I really did need to talk about these things. I had not thought about them in a long time, but once I started talking, the memories kept coming.” (My paraphrase of her words).
I would love to know the name of the Black woman whom Pat quoted in this video. If it’s a known quote and/or the person wants to be named – I think it’s important that she is acknowledged.
I’m struggling to understand my colorblindness as a white woman & how to dismantle it. I have thought since early childhood that it was a positive viewpoint. As a Christ following adult I love two of my best friends as sisters. They are African American women but I haven’t recognized them as such. Thank you for this video that opens my mind & heart to broaching this with them, as far as they desire.
Interesting
I have many things to say but many relevant comments are already here. I encourage every person who is white to read White Fragility and Me and White Supremacy. We were all born into a racist world and every white person is racist. And yes, right now I’m a white person talking to white people and I know this may be hard to hear. It doesn’t negate that you may be a good person or all the good that you do in this world, only that racism will not end until all white people acknowledge they are racists, disrupt privilege, uproot colonialism, and dismantle white supremacy. This is individual work, and not the work of our clients or POC. If individuals don’t do this work it will cause harm in therapy. I believe this is such an important conversation and should never stop. Thank you NICABM
Love these comments, thank you and I echo them.
All people are racist, not just WHITE people.When white people become a minority the situation will be the same for them, it’s already happening in Western societies now, the influx of minorities collectively attacking the ruling culture is evidence of racism.
Brenda reading your comments makes me wonder if you are doing the personal work to address your own racism. You are in a position as a nurse I assume to interact with the public, I’m not sure that I would feel confident of good care as a POC in your hands. I just wonder what it is that you need to feel better….. and you can’t say for people to go home! Or else you’ll have to examine your own history and work out where your home is that you may need to return to. I wish you relief from what feels like a heavy heart and burdened soul.
Marginalized communities?, This feels very broad, like another tip to. Please be clear and say blacks,. People whose ancestors were slaves in this country. Please dont tip toe and include broad categories because other minorities are not dealing with the same trauma and dont have the same history of oppression within the United States. Be clear.
This is a time to stay together, making differences is another way to oppress and minimize trauma from other communities. Using a thermometer to compare pain and impact is not healthy. Trans generational trauma is around us and has no color from slavery to poverty, genocide, terrorism, war, etc. “I see the pain of black communities; I support them and I feel them”. Inclusion!
This was recorded about a month ago, before George Floyd was murdered. It is for another program we are preparing for the fall and so Pat is not talking about the tragedies that have occurred in the last few weeks.
Thank you Sae Taylor for taking the time to write this. So important for everyone to hear. We need to be able to name Anti Blackness specifically. And not lump this together with experiences of other people of color
I really do appreciate Pat Ogden’s vulnerability and honesty about how to address this issue. I know it’s such an uncomfortable conversation, but it can be such a game changer for your client’s of color. It’s rarely helpful for a person of color to tell them that you don’t see color. It’s more harmful than beneficial. To acknowledge it is to say “I see you”.
In the same way that you may not notice that someone is wearing glasses or jewelry, you may not notice the colour of their skin. There are so many different groups other than caucasian, how can you classify every skin colour other than caucasian as ‘black’. It is a self centred approach to think that every person notices the colour of your skin! There is much more to life than that!
As an African American therapist speaking from personal experience. You have to see my color before you can see me. To say you accept me yet, ignoring my color is racism. I represent my ancestors and what they have sacrificed for me to be where I am at today. I understand its might be difficult for some white therapist to put their biases aside, and recognize we are one human being, and should be treated with respect and dignity. Ladies and gentlemen, the invisible shackles are still on; look at your institutions; look at those in power; look at the legal system and tell me if the shackles are not still on “Black people.”
I compassionately disagree. I see Your soul and heart before I see anything else. I hope that is what is you see in me first as well.
Sending you love,
Kendra
I see you Cleo Miller. Because my skin is white, I am privileged. Systemic Racism is real. I don’t know what it’s like to be black.
BLACK
LIVES
MATTER!
Very enlightening in these PC days. We need to acknowledge who we are to each other and go from there. Makes me want to hear more from this erudite and compassionate lady.
Tracking as she mentions is vital as the client might not have come to you to discuss difference in that’s way. Also, don’t be afraid to ask questions. I’m a white therapist, married to a Black African man but will never fully understand what it is like to be marginalised. I can only try to imagine but the lived experience of another will always be different and we need to approach these issues with caution and genuine interest and empathy should they arise in therapy.
Thank you for the wise advice! It’s crucial to try to see the bigger picture. I like Pat’s quote: “If you don’t see my color, then you don’t see me and you certainly don’t see how I see you.” This does not mean that two persons of different color could not interact without giving any thought to their skin color. Be well, everybody!
As a black woman who is training as a therapist and has encountered the “I don’t see colour “ type of therapist , this view is not about resentment but the negation of individual humanity which fuels a deep despair and calling this resentment really does not get to the core belief that persistent invisibilisation creates . My suggestion would be to ask black people what words they would choose for the feelings they feel when who they are is persistently not seen . To be absolutely honest for black and ethnic groups to be healed from the impact of white supremacy they must look to therapists from their own community as well as the white community .
Totally agree, first of all asking clients what words they choose to describe the experience is firmly within person-centred and empowerment models and YES YES to clients being able to choose therapists from within their own communities
I agree Umi Archer and sometimes there are not enough Psychotherapists of Color in certain communities. In this case, I LOVE your suggestion: “My suggestion would be to ask black people what words they would choose for the feelings they feel when who they are is persistently not seen.” I also thought the quote: “If you don’t seek my color then you don’t see me and you don’t see how I see you.” I have appreciated training in Gestalt Practice because the premise is that we are not the authority, we have a set of skills and we meet clients in our authenticity, aware as much as possible the foreground and background that we exist in.
Thank you so much for posting this. I am sitting here with a letter in front of me from my grandfathers mother. I knew my grandfather well. Very well. The letter starts of with the news. President Lincoln was shot last week. It brought me up short how recent this is and how huge and complex this issue is. I so am grateful to hear a voice of compassion and reasonableness at the moment. thanks
Resentment is one of the feelings I completely understand and very close to home” as people say.
For me injustice, unfairness and stigma are core of resentment as it was said in a video.
Myself faced from the early childhood unfairness since I was a child of divorced parents.
Treated like having less chance in life so why would teachers make any efforts for me?
Color of my skin is olive dark and automatically I become “one of them “ and bullied “ Gypsy dirty gypsy”.
I guess one of the reasons I pick up so quickly on anything with possibly being trigger for the resentment.
Thank you Pat for bringing me back to awareness for clients who are maybe oblivious of baggage they are carrying
Through life. Resentment
Katarina
The difference Katerina is that no one knows your parents are divorced when you walk down the street . As a four year old child I was spat on by others at school and the teachers did nothing . I walked home bring black which is something that can not be hidden.
Using the term “one of them “ highlights to me that you have a way to go in considering that “them” are simply other people living under systemic oppression .
Umi, I agree with your powerful point about things that can’t be hidden.
I do wonder though if you may have misunderstood Katrina’s use of of the phrase “one of them”
Didn’t she italicise the phrase in order to set it out as a statement or position coming from others rather than as words coming from her?
Thank you you picked upon the real meaning. There is a good reason I have used either bracket or italics.
I do wonder how Umi just missed such a big point and also it seems she didn’t finish reading my comment.
Otherwise more would be revealed to her benefit.
Thank you
Katarina
Dear Umi
I would appreciate if you could actually read my comment all up to the end, since I truly believe if you read it all your words wouldn’t be “ it’s not visible you’re child of divorced parents “.
Discrimination has been made since decades against children from broken homes, single mum’s or children where fathers are not known.
Secondly color of my skin is very much visible being brown, olive dark due to my ancestors being from Ottoman Empire in the city of 80% people being of different complexion.
Please kindly read my comment
Thank you
Katarina Kildare
Katarina do you know how condescending you have come across. This is not good and is another example of when therapists haven’t done their own internal work and then they act up when challenged.
This is where anti oppressive and anti racist social work frameworks come into play. As critical social workers this is our bread and butter – analysing power relationships and working with clients in a way that acknowledge this. See Lena Dominelli and Bob Mullay for more information.
Oppression, disadvantage and power are key concepts for working with any individual – the social context – otherwise we’re just putting bandaids on gaping wounds
It was really nice to hear Pat talk and put into words what is in the room when working with marginalised people. Thank you so much for sharing your insight and truth.
Saying the words is different than understanding the meaning of living it. And it’s more than knowing a few words of Dr King. I liked the discussion of this topic. Listening and doing my own work on white privilege is important to do. Thank you Pat for addressing this important topic.
So applicable right now. Thank you!
I refrain from attaching any race to privilege or disadvantage. As some have mentioned, I do not want to ASSUME either of the two, lest I impose upon a person what isn’t really there. I might also ASSUME privilege base on race or gender or orientation, only to find unbearable discrimination, harassment or bullying in certain contexts based on these characteristics. So I refuse to be conditioned according to populist political trends, simply because generalizations deligitimize subjectivity. I thank Douglas Murray (author of Madness of Crowds), Helen Pluckrose, James Lindsey (both coined the phrase Critical Social Justice) and Peter Boghossian (authors of the Grievance Studies scandal) who calibrated and sensitized me to the potential, albeit unintentional, harm that can be done.
Thank you for articulating these thoughts – this is my heart as well.
Wow. Pat Ogden. This just blew my socks off. I thank you . As a white coach/ transpersonal therapist who is a “beginner ‘ with leaning into this issue i truly appreciate Nicabm ( and you personally) for helping me to begin to navigate ..I have been looking at where to start and the comment about first distinguishing between the benefits i get from being white versus merit is a beginning . Metta
I think the caution was the most important part of what she said. I try to form a relationship with each unique patient and THEN explore any dynamics that surface. I do not want to impose my agenda or values on the patient. I don’t know that a person feels “marginalized” because of their race (or anything else) and to assume that do can actually be insulting. For example, I don’t feel the least bit marginalized as a woman. If I went to a therapist and they brought this up, I might think that THEY saw me as marginalized. I do, however, ask people, regardless of race, SES, etc. how they feel in response to major events happening around them, e.g. pandemic, mass protests/riots, etc.
I appreciate your caution. Point very well taken. You are welcome to see my own comment too.
Great comment – and thank you for making this distinction.
This is obviously so relevant right now, as conversations like this can no longer be averted (the elephant is blowing it’s trumpet in the room!). As one who lives in a rural, predominately white region, I appreciate the insight this video and others have shared so that I can educate myself further, and be more aware of others’ experiences. I find a conflict, however, in how to proceed: We have acknowledged that these conversations need to be had, yet (as so many comments indicate) there are so many ‘potholes’ to be navigated that it further discourages some of us from having the conversation, for fear that we may offend someone (when offense was not our intention). Tensions are so high right now. I fear being perceived as “racist” if I say something, and also if I don’t; if the words are in the wrong order, too inclusive, or not inclusive enough.
Thank you for at least giving us a place to start.
I will say this, mistakes will be made. We must learn to sit with that uncomfortableness and not be discouraged. Discomfort is a part of change and learning. These are new concepts for people who have never had to deal with this type of oppression and we must educate ourselves. And remember not to put the burden of education on Black people by asking them what you should do.
If you haven’t really examined the construct of race (and lets face it , it is a construct as having reduced melanin in one’s skin as a mutation is nothing in itself exceptional ) , then you probably are . There are ways of examining one’s bias and really looking at it and realising if one is brought up in a racist society then one is very likely to be a racist. Non-melinated people resist this idea because “good folk don’t oppress others “. The truth is that they do and it’s under the radar in their own shadow and the collective shadow of that racial group . It is time to bring this shadow into the open and sit with the discomfort of that .
For the last 44 years I have worked with people of all races, colors and creeds. They are all individuals and all come from varied up bringing and social cultural environments. Their perspectives and psychological states
depend on many factors. We have a tendency in our society to judge the many by a few. If I had the time and space I would describe in detail an event in my Weight Control Seminar wherein an African American man gently though assertively scolded a woman of color in the session for blaming her heritage and negative inner city environment and white people for her negative attitudes and ways of behaving. He told his story of how he elevated himself from crime laden drug addicted the ghettos to become a super successful business man. He reminded her that there are many black people who have risen above and succeed, who are rich and famous and are good examples. He said we need to remind all blacks that blaming all whites for their problems is their problem. Another black client is writing a book explaining that blacks hate themselves and each other and that’s the reason for their aggressive an illegal behaviors. The point herein is that perceptions often rule attitudes and individuals of all color etc need to adjust them. As therapists its our responsibility to help people as individuals to heal and actualize their potential, not to be social advocators.
I appreciate where some folks are coming from with these comments. Although it is clear to me that people are not fully understanding what is needed for social justice to occur both in therapy and within the world. We can not speak about the ‘good’ or ‘bad’. We need to focus this conversation on whiteness and the privileges that we have received from it. It is a deeply unsettling thing to do. Please realize when you speak about marginalized individuals the focus stays on marginalized individuals and the oppression marginalized individuals face. We need to look at the larger systemic issues, White hetero capitalist patriarchy and look at how we benefit from these structures and what we need to do to work against them and oppression. I am white and I benefit from whiteness. I am also trans. I will use this as an example not to shift the conversation away from race but as a way to convey my point from my own perspective. I am very well educated. I have done everything that whiteness has asked of me. But at the end of the day I am still trans and still face oppressions because of it. No matter how good I am at being a ‘good’ trans person, I will never be cisgender. And unfortunately, this means while privileged, I will always experience oppression, whether it be discrimination directed towards me and my nonpassing body or the oppression that society directs towards trans people through media, jokes, etc. This is the same with race and other oppressions. Yes there is privilege that people experience, even when you are a marginalized person, but as long as oppression exists, you will never be ‘good enough’ and you will always face oppression because you aren’t given the same chances and or you have more obstacles to overcome. Even if it’s microaggressions on the way to work.
I feel that there is far more to uncover I belief system like this. Just because one person was able to make it out, does not mean that they or we all can. There are so many reasons for that, like systemic racism (not being hired because a white person is preferred, not getting a full education because schools don’t have funding, not having enough exposure to example of success that look like them and encourage them And so on), and a lack of resources that enable resiliency like positive people in their lives or access to a program that gives them another avenue to “get out.” I think that people are comforted by stories like the one you shared because it takes the blame off of them and the bigger system and it places it on each person. But no man is an island and none of us have done it alone. We can all look back and think of someone who truly helped us, a program that helped us, or a motivating idea that we could identify with. Not everyone has that. It’s solvable but first we have to recognize that it is a systemic issue and stop placing responsibility for Solving years of oppression on each individual.
The “pull yourself up by your own bootstraps” narrative is not helpful. It denies systemic oppression and institutionalized racism. The fact that certain individuals are able to succeed does not negate the structural injustice. I am a Latina who is well educated and by certain standards “successful”. I would never judge, let alone “scold”, other people of color for not achieving what I have. Yes, Blacks and other marginalized people need healing on an individual level, but we also need healing on a community and historical level, and most of all we need justice. By the same token, not all people of color view things from the lens of social justice or recognize how the system has affected and can continue to affect them. That’s okay and their perspective needs to be respected. I don’t think it’s about expecting all people of of color to be social advocates. I think that it’s about the work that white people, in this context white therapists, need to do to acknowledge their privilege.
There is so much to unpick in this comment that Iiterally do not know where to start. So I will start here. Non-melinated inferiority projection complex OR termed white supremacy complex is a construct where self hatred is projected in others in society to disenfranchise then from resources and to elevate the access to resources of the oppressive behaviours that result from have the core beliefs of non- melinated projection complex .
These internal and self limiting beliefs are :-
I deserve to have the best and others who don’t look like me deserve less
I am inherently better than other people
Who I am and what I have achieved is due solely to my hard work and not to social factors
There are many more self limiting beliefs of this complex . The result of this complex and adhering to structures not based in reality is a mass delusion that’ perpetuates hatred on others through behaviours of projection , invisibilisation , oppression , and is systemised by being included within larger societal constructs such as social , legal and law enforcement .
For the individual who is affected by this false belief there is a reduction in the ability to feel empathy for others , a need to be given more of everything than they deserve and an overarching sense of entitlement .
Since this delusion is pervasive in societies that are predominately non-melinated , the structures of this delusion can only occurs when a large enough volume of people are able to understand that race is a construct .
Politically correct speak for homelessness, for example, is to say ‘a person experiencing homelessness,’ not ‘a homeless person.’ This brings a humanity to the forefront and not the issue or label they are dealing with. I couldn’t help but notice, Every time Pat mentions a white person in this video she said ‘a person who is white’ acknowledging they are person first. And every time she mentions an African-American person she says African-American person or marginalized people. I invite everyone this reaches to consider changing their speaking to “child experiencing autism” or “people who are marginalized” for examples, as it’s actually more accurate. There are no marginal people, only people in that situation. The equality many of us are fighting for in language is gone from her language… I love this work. Thank you for for receiving this comment.
Thank you, good point. it really speaks to how deeply embedded the structures are, unconsciously, linguistically. Wondering why you are anonymous?
Thank you to NICAMB and Pat Ogden for this thoughtful and so relevant piece.
Such a good point and applicable to all situations – thank you for sharing…
Yes. Thank you.
As a white special education teacher (not a counselor), and as a mother, grandmother, in a multi-racial family, I want to thank you for this- especially the cautions at the end.
We do need to do our own work. I know that as a teacher. I know that as a family member, supporting those suffering from emotional and physical distress who need to reach out to doctors and therapists. It was a relief to listen to you, Dr. Ogden- just knowing the conversation is out there is a help.
I’m so sad for your experience. The same thing happened to a client of mine. I was very frustrated because it confirmed past traumatic experiences and complicated her recovery. Glad you’re not living with him anymore.
I appreciate nicabm addressing this. Such a good question – what is it like for you to work with a white woman? And also the statement – this will come between us at times.
I am amazed at how quickly nicabm gets relevant videos out. Thanks to Pat and Ruth for addressing this, it helps a lot. I live in a very white area and very seldom work with people of color. I am working on understanding all of this and doing a lot of introspection as to my own beliefs and behaviors. Pat’s comment on being color-blind was especially poignant for me. Well done!!!!
I found Pat’s observations so helpful — one of the most useful, most consumable I’ve heard.
I was especially struck by her nuanced suggestions about each client’s unique experience and desires (or lack thereof) to discuss marginalization, as well as each clinician’s experience and readiness to address it effectively.
Thank you Pat and Ruth!
I appreciate this and you sending it out especially now. Thie reality has affected my life as a therapist and I have often struggled to stay connected at the level I know I am capable of functioning at within the field myself. I’m not a youngster any more so I I am thankful for all those who have and do push forward in the nmidst of white privilege being a often times silent issue that affects the work I have been able to do. Thank you for helping whites to get it.
Good points, succinctly presented.
I was glad to see that she acknowledge the marginalization of the female gender.
Nearly all of the current discussions I see about the George Floyd murder reflect what I call the Sexism of Racism. Many black male leaders hated the movie “The Color Purple” when is came out because it exposed the Sexism of Racism. A white MALE copy killed a black MALE. Women, as usual, remain irrelevant to the conversation. The Gender element of the murder is completely ignored. Eight women are murdered by men in Domestic Violence every day in America. Where are the protests about that.
Three thousand American citizens are murdered in the womb every day. Where are the ongoing protests about that genocide.
Always about the born men.
The “what about this argument“ . Talking about race does in no way invalidate the other oppressive power structures of sex , sexual orientation , and religion etc .
When the topic turns to investigating race the subject matter often turns to other matters naturally as a way of not sticking to the discomfort of feeling how one can not oppress others unless one is oppressed oneself
Also my thanks to NICAM for this input. Wise and authentic input from Pat. And everything I would like to add has been said very ably by Amoy Ong (below or above depending on how your comment feed is moving!) So thank you also to Amoy.
Thank you for inspiring me to do my homework about white privileged and to be less cautious about engaging in a dialogue about our different experience.
Have been fortunate to mainly work a good proportion of my group work with those who were traumatized due to sexual and physical abuse so despite the elephant in the room, the bigger problem is the damage to ones body even though the playing field is not the same, the empathy is stronger as ones person hood is damaged as well as their bodies.
It has also been gratifying to help someone of a different race to see their hope for thier future and educate their desires. To help be their cheerleader, able to empathize when they have not learned how special they are and the gifts they have to improve thier lot in life. Have found that some of the most rewarding in treatment. When client sees no other avenue because they never pondered the unique possibilities for their future, it just takes longer to help them see their potential. Yes, they might see white but they can educate me as to their unique past fears and attempts to rise above thier circumstances.
In a way being raised without racism in ones life helped me see it with horror once it comes to a worldview, instead of a microcosm of ones upbringing.
People who are open minded are wonderful humans. Giving them their voice in counseling has been some of my most wonderful growth experiences and vice versa as it is a reciprocal relationship, not this stand offish behavior as many professionals I have heard speak of in such a negative tone. It has a lot to do with the training and if there is arrogance in a teacher, then maybe we should change our educational experience as it does happen in our training.
So often I think I did not stand up against this white arrogance. That was my error. I needed to stand up to a teacher or superviser when that line was broached ineffectually. Had a psychiatrist colleague once say to me that this is why a particular white client had problem unlike “us.” I was appalled and he was white. Can you imagine how he treated someone of color.
That closed mindedness is to be pushed against and encourage mindfulness. Maybe it would help to use this mindfulness in other ways to avoid this sense of privaledge, not just for meditation, but for behavior of those who teach others, whether a teacher, supervisor or clinician.
People sometimes, un;ike our Pat’s empathetic understanding today, just do not think when they talk. It is so easy to damage ones psyche and needs to be taken into perspective no matter who you are. Seeing beyond skin color, educational experience, financial rank or just cultural pride is imperative. Promoting pride can only help anyone once we see the need in those lowered eyes of bowed head or even in the arrogance. It takes many faces which is so rewarding to our own humanity. Thanks, Pat for your thoughts.
I love the way you explain these complicated situations that most of us experience, in varying degrees. Thank you.
I would like to change what I wrote to you about most of us experiencing these situations. I meant to say the reverse, that the majority have not experienced what marginalized people have had to deal with. They cannot even pretend to do that. They made huge errors when they think they can really understand eg. racism if they are part of the majority, they can’t say that at all. It’s only the experiences of the oppressed that can truly talk about these issues.
Thank you. I found this very helpful.
Wonderful to hear this profound and so beautifully sensitive words. To me as a white German this ongoing topic now opens quite a broader and wider realm for a deeper understanding of the implications of ones personal experience and how to deal with ones own mindsets learned a long, long time ago. Although I have thought mainly already having overcome and understood this fact, it feels now as if there are more levels to dive into. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Pat. You’re one of the very few therapist I know of who would talk about white skin privilege and the homework White therapists need to do before a meaningful therapeutic alliance could be established with clients from a marginalized communities. Body-oriented psychotherapy work, an area which I am working needs must move towards working with racialized bodies, beyond the traditional White bodies. Thanks to NICABM for starting this conversation.
Thank you Amoy. This summarises so well how I would like to respond. And yes I completely agree with the need to spread the healing work and soon!
Thank you , great balance of recognizing one’s own racia/oppressedl context as well as more marginalized persons with ongoing stress from injustice who may not want social justice as the focus. The respect for honouring the needs of others.
Very helpful. By acknowledging the real situation of the marginalized client rather than glossing over the differences, in all aspects of both the client and the therapist, one can come to a place of true grounding. Once the power dynamics are addressed and acknowledged, there can be a better meeting of the minds in a place of equality.
very helpful for language around acknowledging white privelage.
the goal to reduce the dysregulation so a person can utilise more critical or other thoughts and feelings is very helpful.
Id also be interested in ideas on those who carry resentment for something which has passed
I absolutely love this video! As a latino mental health professional I often hear that from patients working with white professionals. Sometimes very well prepared clinicians in their specific areas but ignoring that huge elephant in the room.
Found this simple and to the point and very helpful. Thank you.