Last week, I talked about challenging ourselves to be brave.
You shared a lot of beautiful responses and dreams – everything from learning to dance to leaving your agency to open a practice. Your stories and goals are inspiring to me.
There’s so much each of us has to contribute to the world, and yet it’s easy to allow issues of bravery or other limiting beliefs to hold us back.
Our limiting beliefs can be about anything that has to do with our identity or potential, but today I want to focus on one tricky area in particular: money.
Ask yourself honestly: How do you feel about how you are paid?
It’s not a question we’re used to as practitioners. We were called to this profession because we wanted to serve others and change the world . .
. . . not because we wanted to make a fantastic salary.
But too often, we expect of ourselves (and each other) that we be entirely selfless, and often see the expectation of being compensated for the important work we do as almost crass. It’s something that people in that “other” world do.
Yet money is a fact of life. While it might be uncomfortable to discuss openly, it’s something we can’t avoid – especially when your kid needs braces, or your car starts making that strange rattling sound, or you just want to finally take off for that dream vacation in Italy.
And, we have a lot to gain by taking on the topic head-on.
So often, we frame this as a choice between being paid fairly for what we do versus making a difference in the world.
But I think that’s a false choice – it doesn’t have to be one or the other. Nor should it be.
And buying into this false choice may be something that we, in our line of work, are prone to.
I don’t see too many engineers, business executives, or airline pilots who are shy about taking home fair compensation for their important work.
Yet if we don’t value what we do, what makes us think others will?
We also often buy into the idea that any limit to our compensation is set by someone else and is entirely beyond our control.
So let me ask you, how are you paid and how do you feel about it? Is it enough to take time off around the holidays? Will you be able to retire one day?
Do you have any limiting beliefs about what you “should” earn that could be holding you back?
As practitioners we know all too well how our expectations and beliefs can hold us back.
If we’re not willing to examine our own limiting beliefs . . . how can we help our clients push past their limitations?
I’m not saying we don’t do pro bono work or give our tithe (perhaps beyond that), but I would like to challenge us all to think about the limiting beliefs we might have around money.
So I invite you to think about it for a bit, and ask yourself: what are your personal feelings about making money, and do they hold you back in any way from being all you can be, or from giving all that you have to offer to the world?
Okay, that’s enough bravery for me for the day. Now it’s your turn. Please leave your thoughts in the comments below.
Interesting. I have been looking around different blogs for information. I love using this site for fun. Great way to help learn!
This is an important conversation, so thanks for starting it. I have been an RN for over 20 years and it feels much better to be compensated well for what I do, and it has implications all around. When the salary is set too low, there is not as much respect from colleagues, administration, other professionals and clients, (although a lot of lip service is paid about how valuable our work is, and isn’t is a shame we are not adequately paid). Now that I am paid well, I feel respected and it reflects in the work that I do, in that I am no longer secretly resentful, I have a higher level of self respect that translates into better relationships at work and improved patient care.
Now a few words about entering the therapy profession in California,
It takes many years of schooling and professional training to become competent at it. This training is expensive, almost as much as a mortgage in some places. After graduation, there are the 3000 hours of next to free labor provided to the various state agencies and organizations that provide low cost therapy to people. This process takes 3-5 years to complete, and it is done under the guise of the apprenticeship model, which in my opinion, could be done in 1000 hours or on the job, paid training after getting a license. Other professionals such us nurses, doctors, occupational and physical therapists do it this way and they would not put up with this kind of inadequate compensation for their services.
We are having this conversation because we have been entrained to accept less for our services
than other professionals. What is all the guilt and shame around asking for more money about?
C
I know I lot of people who have to intern at low wages for years during training…like my spouse,
4 board certified physician in debt $300,000 earning a pittance during years of training and such important training it was!
Since when has earning $100 plus per hour as master’s level therapist become a low and underpaid profession? I must live on another planet because in my world…CT…a relatively wealthy state…. that is a fairly remarkable amount of money in my eyes.
My RN clients certainly earn considerably less per hour, and what they provide is invaluable.
I feel embarrassed about this board…if my clients could read some of the comments about our being underpaid they would be horrified and enraged…and I couldn’t blame them for it.
Please check Shannon’s post–I think she is very representational of many voices.
Thank you all for a great conversation! And thank you Ruth, for your valuable work. For me, money is just energy, just like everything else, nothing more, nothing less. And, how much is enough, too much, too little?
I charge gladly as much as I can for my services if I know the client has money. Often they have a lot and I think it’s good for everyone that they pay me well. My work is valuable in my eyes and in theirs. Then I can help other people who are not doing so well financially. As you do, Bill, in Santa Fe. I always trust my intuition and know, what is the right thing to do for me.
Christine in Ireland, I totally agree! Let’s work for the good of all!
First off, I would like to express my appreciation and enjoyment of your website. Thank you for your work.
As for my thoughts on this particular article, I feel a bit of a rub from reading it. You see, I’m not on the receiving end of the fees, but the payer. I have never seen any practitioner charge less then $80 an hour but most often much more, up to $175 an hour. I have known I could use some help from a good therapist for 20 years, with never the funds to pay for it until this year. I was long overdue and my problems exacerbated. Maybe the practitioners schedules are unfilled, therefore some are not earning a full living, but those that are even half full are earning multiple times more that I as a preschool teacher. My opinion is that the fees of most practitioners are way too high for what the common folk can afford, and therefore not really so helpful after all.
Sincerely,
Shannon Johnson
Shannon, check my below posts. This is exactly why I have a low sliding scale fee schedule. My lowest a few years ago was 50 per session, goes up to keep up with inflation. We may have wonderful services, but they are not useful if we exclude a vast majority of the hard working but
underpaid population! My lowest fee now is $60 and believe me I know what a hefty chunk of change this is for folks who earn what you must earn! It is so much more than my 120 per hour for high income earners by an enormous margin.
I think your blonde meonmt makes perfect sense – your unconscience just wasn’t ready to admit that winter is on the way. I did a short post and used your Holiday Traditions banner. I look forward to reading everyones’ traditions. Great idea!
Although many feel that they have to choose between helping change the world or making money, this is indeed a limiting belief. So how about this:
We all have gifts and talents. There are people out there desperately waiting for us to share them with them, in fact this is the reason we chose to come here.
Our gifts and talents are invaluable to some, they represent sometimes a difference between life and death, therefore they are worth every penny someone is willing to pay for them.
When we attach a price on our services we must remember that in doing so we are worthy of the money we earn/make and that this money is the door for us to spend it on projects or initiatives we’ve set our heart on.
Personally I have decided to use 10% of what each client pays me to invest in those who are unable to pay for my services. So a rich client is actually also funding a good cause. How much more empowering could this be? And if we let our paying clients know, most of them will be thrilled by the idea.
Myriam, this is the best idea presented yet, allowing the wealthier, higher paying clientele to support the less fortunate. I would imagine that this makes their therapy feel even more rewarding, meaningful and connected to humanity. Bravo for your creativity and vision! I am going to consider how to do this moving forward….
I find myself confused by many of the comments I see below. I am a highly educated, highly trained, Clinical Social Worker and the work I do is important just as my clients are important. I should be compensated appropriately for my time and tears. And insurance companies should be willing to pay for the care of those who pay into the system.
I also take issue with the question “how much money is ok to make on people’s pain?” I don’t make money on others’ pain; my job is to help people heal from their pain. My job is also to help divert people from needing high levels of care, such as hospital stays, whether for mental health or physical health. That is to say, to prevent further and future pain.
Living in Massachusetts where insurance companies set the reimbursement rates, I have been upset to see the rates as they are and even more upset to see the trend. Mental health professionals prevent more costly interventions, that’s why mobile crisis teams are funded. That’s why hospitals have social workers and nurses talk to frequent emergency department visitors. I think it is time that third party funders stop penny pinching and start paying those of us who do prevention and healing what we are objectively worth to them, which is a whole heck of a lot more than we are being paid now.
I think the issue is not that I undervalue myself (obviously I don’t), it is that my clients who are mostly poor, non-English speaking, children who are struggling with mental illness and trauma, are undervalued by society as a whole – that is to say, most people seem to not care about them and so do not support those who do care.
Anna, your work is incredibly important and you should be compensated well for it!
I think the comment Mikki made referred to private practice practitioners who set their own fees apart from those defined by insurance companies. If you take a look at what many such people charge: sliding scales that range from 160-250 per 45 minute session, you will quickly understand that the reference was not targeted at practitioners like you who are underpaid by insurance companies. In certain cities, fees are skyrocketing to 300-500 per session. I am sorry, no one is that good in my mind and if you think you are, then let us know your magic tricks and maybe you can consider spreading your ‘magic’ to include more middle class folk/lower class in your kingdom….
The rates that many private practitioners charge are climbing and climbing so that many completely eliminate services to any clients other than maybe the 1-2% of the population at best. It certainly will eliminate long term depth work for all but a few. If they wish to do this fine, but hang a plaque at their doors and say: “Wealthy accepted only”. I have heard of therapists in Fairfield County, CT deliberate on how they can frame their services to attract only the wealthiest of clients—this came directly from the sibling of one of my clients in MFT who interns in such a group—-disgusting, to say the least. Even a senior supervisor of mine, in the field for over 30 years in CT, says he has heard of distant colleagues speaking in this manner….”Oh, that potential client is moneyed, I have an opening….”
I am horrified by people in the “helping profession” who have the gall to exploit those who are suffering. They should have chosen to be business executives or heads of multinationals instead!
Look, I have seen it all…clients have come to me having been sexually exploited by male therapists and other boundary violations, passed off to other therapists without termination or proper explanation, pathologized instead of received with compassion, badly misdiagnosed –one for 30 years, treated only with medications, patronized…you name it. And I see mostly highly educated professionals who can protect themselves more than most.
Let us not be pollyanna-ish about our field. It is full of good people and also narcissistic, self-centered jerks….a few quite famous. My spouse interned briefly with Otto Kernberg briefly at Cornell– a nasty, contemptuous little man however brilliant you may find his obtuse books on borderline personality….I have had plenty of run-ins myself with personality disordered, detached, non self-reflective and unempathic clinicians. It is disheartening.
But then there are people like Ron Siegel: Kind, humble, intelligent, compassionate, wise, gentle.
Redeemers of our beautiful profession 🙂
I used to have issues with this. I had to not only overcome limiting beliefs about being “worth it,” but also to define exactly what value I bring to clients. Once I was able to do that for myself, it seems that’s how people began to perceive me. Just today a potential new client asked me what sets me apart from other Healing Code Practitioners. Because I had this issue finally settled in my own heart, it was easy and natural to give her an answer.
Thank you Ruth! This interesting question hits close to home. Allthough we are not rich we have a comfortable life because my husband wasn’t shy about his own worth. This gave me the opportunity to do a lot of pro bono work. However, in my meagerly paid work I came across a lot of people who had serious mental health problems and whose income was way below the poverty level. One cannot find any help for these people in states with ‘poor’ counties. Behavioral medicine in hospitals seems to be a temporary bandaid. Unless the USA considers the importance of health for ALL its people, one can only make a decent income in this field from affluent clients. There are therapists who don’t accept medical insurance and only see clients who can afford to pay them. I am retired and still help people. Recently my husband told me when I talked about the book I am writing, that my tentative price is too low. Has this to do with my self-worth, affordability of my book, or both?
I presently accepted a position in a hospital, during salary negotiation I was brave and asked for what I needed, a 7000. increase from the previous dangerous job. I was offered and accepted the position the supervisor stated 40 hours or until the job gets done!!! Getting the job done has never been a problem. I have been unnerved to shortly find out that social workers and therapists worked 50 to 60 hours a week came in on weekends to catch up.
Early on I was told if I work more than 40 hours the rate goes down, plus exhaustion and stress go up. Is this common in a hospital? THe nurses clock in and out, so does the all the other mental health workers. THe administration is long gone at 4:00-wondering if this is even legal? I love this profession it is my 4th profession in life-my passion so my work day flies by, but my body is breaking down with stress from paperwork and deadlines-too many intakes and discharges daily! Private practice is sounding better and better!
The topic is a good one & one I was just discussing the other morning with my husband. I have made a commitment, during my over 25 years of being in practice, to stay on the cutting edge of my field, whatever I decided that cutting edge to be. Consequently, like many others who have posted, I have spent thousands of dollars and thousands of hours getting those training, honing those skills and keeping up to date so I can be of most help to my clients. During this entire quarter of a century (!) insurance reimbursements for my services have gone DOWN, not UP! In what other field is that the case? Lately, with the national concern over the Newtown shootings and the focus on the mental health of those who commit such acts, the question has to arise — given the low rate of insurance payments for, and restrictions on sessions for mental healt –, will such treatment be available to those who need it? I know that I alone, among my closest local colleagues, am on insurance panels. Many of my colleagues have a life partner who helps support them, while I have always been the sole support of my family. I value what I do, but I do not think our society does
Hi Barbara, My spouse is an oncologist/hematologist whose educational expenses totalled close to
$300,000 and has thousands of dollars of yearly expenses for conferences, recertifications in four medical specializations, etc. She has told me that after 2006 and the Medicare Modernization Act,
all private insurers dropped their reimbursement rates across the USA up to 50%. So, it seems, that indeed there are other fields in which reimbursements have significantly decreased. Her private practice takes on patients regardless of ability to pay and often eat the expenses when insurance companies don’t reimburse at the full amount for chemotherapy (which happens allot). As she puts it-“patients are sick and need to be treated; it is not optional”.
I do my ex’s taxes each year (high school teacher) and after 20 years of being a teacher, his gross annual salary has decreased at the same school where he has taught for years due to cuts
across the state. Also, his pension is in jeopardy as are many teachers. It is a mess!
I have never experienced anything other than respect and high regard from other professionals when I tell them I am a psychotherapist. It may not have the narcissistic stature of other professions, but then again, are we choosing this profession because it is lucrative or because
it is meaningful? These are not at cross purposes necessarily, but I would think for anyone whose
primary value is weath, it would be a strange oxymoron and a potential conflict of interest to choose the human services field.
Treatment may not be as available for many clients/patients if we do not adjust to the unfortunate situation in mental health in our country. However, I believe that there will always be good souls whose commitment to the mental health field and serving the indigent will overcome their concerns with wealth, even if they work two or three jobs or volunteer their services…which many do. I so admire people’s generosity! They are my saints and role models.
I find myself grateful that Nicole Ditz speaks well for me. I’ve been in private practice…home office…no insurance panels, my own sole support for 30 yrs. Never entertained for one minute involving myself in the hassles and limitations of agencies for a modicum of security, benefits or paid vacation….just not a dilemma for me for whatever reason.
I find the consideration of “what are you worth” old and tired in many ways. As a former school teacher in Calif, my choice of professions had everything to do with where intuition has guided me. Someone said once when I was buying a house…”Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay”. Of course, I made much more money in the ’80’s when everybody had money and the 1% was only gestating.
In the last 6 yrs I have done MORE pro-bono….slides and deferments as I watched folks losing jobs, houses and marriages. Things have been tight for me, no doubt about it…… When folks can pay my full fee of $120, I definitely let them….AND, my needs have been met for all these years. When I was a single mother in grad school cleaning houses, there were several care providers that helped me thru by adjusting their fees, and I am most grateful now to pay it forward
A question I have asked many more times than the “worth” one….is “how much money is ok to make on people’s pain?” I have an answer that fits for me and it’s not a struggle that I experience. Somehow, things have worked out and I continue to have enough of what I need.
Mikki, you have made my day! Your quote and question is a sobering one indeed:
A question I have asked many more times than the “worth” one….is “how much money is ok to make on people’s pain?”
Your philosophy about “paying it forward” is so at the heart of the matter. I think one of the problems in our country is a complete lack of taking responsibility for one another’s wellbeing.
Again, patriarchal values, individualism over the collective, rampant narcissism, and the younger generation being raised to believe that they should be “handed” all their ‘entitlements’ are driving us down a dangerous and potentially heartbreaking road.
Ruth has brought so many wonderful speakers to her institution both focused on trauma and on buddhist mindfulness. It would be interesting to hear from them how they feel about this issue,
particularly those steeped in buddhist traditions/philosophy….I wonder how they find a balance between making a substantial living and walking the talk…Ron, Jack?
To find a balance requires a shift in our beliefs, starting with the assumption of making money on someone’s pain. We are here to help others off their pain and that is worthy of being paid for. If we want to build a house we are going to go to an architect and pay her/him to build our house, we would not dream of asking her/him to build it for free because for whatever reason we need that house but we are unable to pay for it. Or to ask an architect to build a shelter free of charge for the homeless people in our neighborhood.
Besides as I mentioned in my comment above: the money we earn will enable us to invest part of it in projects or initiatives of our heart.
Money is only an energy that must keep flowing, if people could start looking at it from this perspective, it might lead to deep transformation, shift and wonderful creativity.
I don’t have any trouble charging my clients, but I have been thinking about raising my rates and after reading all these posts, I am definitely going to. I try to carry 4 pro bono clients at all times and I see some people on a sliding scale. I also do take insurance clients. The interesting thing is that the part of my practice that is growing the most right now is the clients who are paying directly out of their own pockets and most of them are paying my full rate.
Dear Ruth,
Thank you for your good service to all of us. I am enjoying your webinars immensely and your question today about money intrigues me. I will be starting a private practice in California in the next several months after I pass the second and final licensing exam. I have been thinking a great deal about how to build my practice and what to charge, so your question is timely for me.
I was a commercial real estate broker prior to becoming a soon-to-be-licensed psychologist. Hence, I am accustomed to being paid well for my work. Many of my Supervised Professional Experience hours were earned at the Northridge Family Practice Clinic working with low-income patients insured by Medi-Cal and Medicaid. I saw the desperate need for mental health services in these low-income communities and the dearth of resources to treat the problems.
I have a wonderful mentor who is a long time therapist. She is the one who talked to me about reciprocity and the importance of being paid for our work. If we are only a “giver” of our time, and not a “receiver” of something of value (money) from our clients, then the client is left “owing” us.
Ann Leigh brings up a great point in her post. The Dog Whisperer only got people to listen to him and take his advice when he made them pay for it. To me this means that it was only when he was able to realize his own worth that others also realized his worth.
I wonder if one of the obstacles many of us put in front of ourselves is that we are somehow unworthy or not good enough to be paid well for what we do. If we believe this about ourselves, how can our clients feel any different?
Thank you to all who have posted on this important topic. Thanks to Tim Cusack for his recommendation of Mind Over Money. I ordered a copy today and look forward to uncovering any other false beliefs I have about my ability to make a lot of money doing what I passionately love to do – teaching others what I have been learning about being fully alive.
btw…my website is under construction. It won’t be launched until June when I am licensed…my best to all.
Why do I see so many comments about our “worth” being tied into how much we charge our clientele? I find, as I wrote below, that my clients-intelligent, beautiful, sensitive people-value my presence, my personhood, my wisdom regardless of where they fall on the sliding scale. That is why they see me for years, regardless of the fee.
What dollar amount can be adequately correlated to worthiness? When is it too much, when too little?
Maybe, I am crazy, but 17 years into this venture, I felt the same level of worth earning my intern rate of $25 an hour as I do with clients who now pay me $120 an hour. I understand all the practicalities and necessities of earning a robust enough living, but how does this translate to worth?
My best friend works at the Waldorf school as a head teacher and makes a very small salary but loves her work. Is she unworthy? My ex-spouse is a high school teacher with a modest salary. Is he unworthy? My spouse is now, after many years of scraping by on intern/resident salary, a high income earner. Is her worth greater now? Or greater than my worth? She certainly does not think so!
What is our time worth? Really curious about this…Is it whatever the market will bear?
Why do some professions earn so much more than others? Is teaching an unworthy profession?
Why does my hair stylist make more money per hour than some of my friends with much more education working as teachers and with children? Is it worth more? (I like my hair stylist)
Can we really measure our worth in dollar signs?
I don’t know how to do this….
How much is FAIR given equal years of experience, degrees, and region of the country?
I look on psychologytoday therapy directories and feel indignant with therapists with 7 years of experience, looking no older than 30, charging 160-180 an hour. What?! Am I missing something? Or are we as human beings too entangled in Western Capitalism to have any sense of what is fair, ample, substantial or enough? I would never pay a professional inflated fees even though I have the money. I would question in any field their ethics, their integrity, their character.
I am not judging. I am right here in the mess myself. My spouse has decided to cut back on hours with big cut in salary in future because all she does is work. Money is a great thing, important, believe me…I know what it is like on both sides of the continuum…but how is it
indicative of our worth?
I’m not sure Ruth would disagree with your point. My sense is that she was not suggesting that money is the measure of our worth. I think she was addressing an audience of those who hold back from expecting material success (for which money is one measure) out of a sense that it is inherent in helping others to not ask much for oneself. The choice of how much to charge for one’s services is up to everyone to decide for themselves. At the same time, it may be important to examine one’s motives and the sometimes subconscious feelings underlying such a choice—whether one is charging little or a lot. We have different needs, and it is good to know what our needs are and not to lead a life of self-sacrifice that is neither necessary nor fulfilling. I think many do. At the same time, I don’t think anyone who is charging low or modest fees should feel that there is anything inherently wrong with that. It’s just different strokes for different folks but…..know thyself.
Well said Robert! And to think that you have been a massage therapist…someone who receives no insurance reimbursements. I adore my medical massage therapist. His services are worth every single penny. It seems unfair that chiropractors receive reimbursements but not massage therapists as so many issues have to do with soft tissue.
I was not arguing with Ruth by the way. I love her spunk and get a total kick out of her when she perseveres with her questions of the speakers, especially when she asks about the research substantiating their claims! Go Ruth, you must be a kicker as a psychotherapist 🙂
Our belief system is in our body. Our thoughts are primarily a bubbling up of the internal reality within us. Our relationship to money can be clearly plotted on the poly-vagal curve. We can be dorsal vagal – shut down, not even aware of our relationship to money. We can be sympathetic arousal – fight to make more and create safety, flight to avoiding dealing with our money issues (that’s been my default) or we can be in ventral vagal engagement with the whole process, which is what this question is inviting. Rather than seeking a solution to our ‘money problems’ if we are in a true vagal state, we are more interested in engaging in the novelty of what we are about to learn, rather that the outcome of the money itself. Our relationship to money is not about money per se, nor is it about our ‘beliefs’ per se, it is more so like a light on our dashboard that is showing us our internal neurophysiological state in that relationship. Now, that is really interesting, because if that state is habitual and automatic and I am not consciously choosing to be in that state…it’s a habitual and automatically activated state – effectively a defensive response! Rather than focusing on money here and now, it may be more novel to start to explore that state, and see it as a doorway to showing us we have unresolved trauma patterns from the past, rather than missing the opportunity to deal with our internal reality and get tricked into thinking we are solving this current problem. Have fun!
Go Richmond!
i’m still struggling with: ‘do i deserve the money i get paid?’
and actually i get paid only 90 dollars per session as the rest (60 dollars) goes to my boss
as it is her private practice.
i always strive to learn more about techniques, methods that are applicable so that
i can send my clients with a tool.
yet, for my own mental health issues, i have sought the help of a shaman who has done wonders
for me. so, when i see a client with complex issues i keep thinking “if she’d only see the shaman that has helped me, she’d get healthy so much quicker” and that puts a damper on the money i receive.
therefore, i have decided to learn shamanic counseling as an adjunct from the shaman who has helped me. he has agreed to offer it and also supervise me. i am very grateful.
i hope that after i learn shamanic counseling i will feel that i deserve the money.
thank you,
billur
Nicely put, Dr. Ruth. Women have no idea *how much they are worth*!
We give away both time and money when we perform work for gratis. I believe the biggest loss for those who donate services is not the lost income but the loss of time. So I will tell you how I feel about both.
As an RN, mother, wife, in-law and daughter, I always gave willingly to others, family, extended family, strangers, those in need. I also managed elder-care through issues surrounding alzheimers, strokes and ETOH abuse for 4 parents. Only one sibling out of 5 helped with this in any significant way, the others were off living their lives climbing mountains, surfing, backpacking etc.
I thought we were doing the RIGHT THING. We had always chosen what seemed “right” to do with no regard for the personal and financial costs to ourselves.
But time passed. Months became years..10+ years of elder care. And all this occurred when our children were in middle and high school. They needed us too.
Then the recession hit us hard right as we approached retirement. We lost our life’s savings. Money has suddenly taken on new meaning. Now that we are reaching our sunset years, the sunset years aren’t looking so rosy. Why did I forgo payment for services to parents and why did I give all those years that could have been used for living?
Now our siblings continue to live their lives as they always have with big pensions/ retirements or large nest eggs that allow them to vacation everyday in their retirement. I have not been on vacation at all in the past 5 years and I doubt this will change for a long time. Perhaps the worst part is that I see the end of life roaring down on me and I don’t feel as though I have taken time to live my life. I thought we would have both money and time to enjoy together in later life. Seems we have put our personal desires off too long. Yes, I carry resentment.
I had never thought about money much before now. It just wasn’t important to me. We never had a lot, but it always seemed to be enough. Yet when I view the choices made by our siblings to amass money while continuing to live their fun packed lives rather than caring for ailing and difficult parents, I wonder if I was the one who made the wrong choices. These siblings choose to LIVE, we consistently chose to help others regardless of the cost to us personally. THE COST WAS REALLY HIGH in terms of lost living time.
So I really don’t know what to say about money.
Money puts food on the table and allows you to “play” at a variety of things. Most importantly for me, someone with PTSD, it can buy safety and security such as quiet serene housing. Yet I see TIME as the most precious commodity, it is limited. Once lost, it is irretrievable. I wish I could have those 10+ years back. If I was given a do-over I would choose to live more of my life having fun with my nuclear family. Unfortunately there are no second chances.
So when choosing to donate lots of time and work be sure you know what personal sacrifices this really entails.
Jane, your post really touches me. You touch me! I hope that you can appreciate yourself
as a person with deep humanitarian values–as a person who has placed love, service, support, sacrifice for others as the greater good. You have not “lost” time; you have made decisions as to where to ‘spend’ your time. Now you are making different decisions based on your experiences.
I am not sure there are easy answers….
I now wish I had spent more time visiting my late father in his elder years and also when he was
in a nursing home. He was a holocaust survivor and a very difficult person in some regards, yet also a brilliant, witty, astonishing man in other respects. I made my choices back then based on fear, self-absorption, avoidance, and other emotions. I wish I had some of that time back now to do things a bit differently. Hindsight is ever so different….no major regrets, just wistful. I miss my Papa.
I hope these remaining years for you are fulfilling, secure, and peaceful. I give you allot of credit for trying to do the best you could at the time. Those years surely counted in some meaningful ways as did your admirable efforts.
Thank you, thank you, Ruth for this great post! It has reminded me of the work I need to do around “my worth” as a mental health counselor. I have some thinking to do!
GREAT exchange! Thanks, Ruth. The words, “Physician, heal thyself” are coming to mind.
Rita
I have caught myself, recently, in an old pattern of “thinking about the worst outcome” in given situations; and decided to snap my focus to thinking about how positively things will all turn out….and voila…..positive outcomes have graced my life. It feels soooo good to know that we all have that power within our thoughts–that change our internal vibration and manifest the good in our lives.
the desire is one,you can desire to make money in what you do and desire to help others,one desire doesnt contradict the other
the problem comes when the person thinks that if he helps others then he cant have money,this is a limiting belief
As we all know, the field of human services can be rewarding, meaningful, joyful, and, at times, even pleasant. But, we also know this same field can be unrecognized, unrewarding, undervalued, minimized, emotionally taxing, and it can sometimes take from us more than it provides emotionally and financially. I’ve seen plenty of good and talented people driven out of the field because, amongst other factors, they couldn’t support themselves and/or their families.
We all have our personal and professional reasons for entering this field. And, I’m fairly confident that most of us have the best of intentions in serving our clients. But, as my time in this field grows longer, it seems the frequency of clinicians (new and seasoned) that are being chewed up and spit out is alarming. It also seems that some of the individuals doing the chewing and spitting of clinicians should know better yet the idea of easy money or institutional advancement is too attractive.
So, I guess the question is, are we (as a mental health professional community) taking care of each other and promoting good, informed, and meaningful practice? Or, as in my current working situation, are we holding on to our thoughts and ideas that, if explored, might help us create something wonderful or help us understand something better, because if you express these ideas it is very likely that someone else will abduct it and call it their own thus advancing further in their so-called career and accepting the financial reward that was really meant for you?
our limiting beliefs squash our intention, saboteur our purpose on earth.Money is not evil per se as long as we’re not slave to it ,but be its sagacious masters.Make positive difference to the community with any surplus.
I retired from community mental health 16 months ago and opened a private practice in a small rural community. I had contracted with some government agencies for psychological evaluations and believed the contract work would be my foundation as I built my outpatient services. I used some of 401K and got a business loan to get started. This has been both a wonderful joy and a crushing struggle. Being on my own and having the freedom to set my schedule around my family versus my family around my schedule as I did for so many years was such a blessing. My dad died earlier this year and I was able to spend much more time with him after I retired than before and that was a blessing I would have missed if I had not retired when I did. However, the contract work is sporadic and not at all dependable. Insurance companies don’t pay in a timely manner and I don’t have cash flow in a new business like I would/should after a few years so it has been financially quite difficult. Our income has decreased significantly and my husband and I are both struggling to deal with the unpredictability of being retired and having businesses that don’t give us the same consistently that working for others did. I have not had any difficulty setting my fees but my fees in a small town are much, much lower than those professionals can charge in larger communities or cities. What I do is very important to the community and lots of people are excited about my opening a private practice . . . but the financial hardship is such that I am not sure I will be able to sustain long enough to get the business up and running the way I want it. I preferred not to work out of my house so I rented space in a professional center. I have not yet had any other providers interested in quitting a full time job to work in a private practice to join me in my office. My friend who also quit and opened a private practice is a psychologist and she is just doing evaluations for state agencies. She refuses to go outpatient mental health work because she refuses to deal with health insurance! I may have to make some changes to keep my business going, but I have every intention to give it time to build if at all possible. I am not ready to stop professional practice yet because I love what I do! I really appreciate NICABM support (as does another colleague who also quit and opened a private practice) and recognition of the realities of private practice and practice in a helping profession is an encouragement.
I certainly relate to this. I’ve always worked for an agency in part to avoid the more direct dealing with money in private practice. I’ve had a youth say I couldn’t care about him really because I’m being paid for it and had to explain the “opportunity cost” of doing this work rather than another. Naturally resentment arises when one compares one’s wages to those of people putting out comparable effort in this or other fields, but there is also the “macro-world guilt” that we, as conscientious types, carry in contemplating how many in the world are living in hellish poverty, so we feel we shouldn’t complain…and then there are the success salesmen, the “law of attraction” gurus, the Forum you-can-have-anything-you-really-want people, that might (unintentionally or intentionally so that we sign up) make us feel it’s our personal fault that we’re not as successful as we might like to be…In sum, it can be maddening!
I have made good money in my past. It wasn’t important to me, my responsibility to take care of my family was important. Since an unwelcome life changing event and the resultant treatment resistant depression, I have earned very little money. $2112 in 2012! Savings all gone.
My situation is not sustainable so I have to make some decisions if I cannot find work. The depression makes that more difficult.
Three things are relavant in regards to money:
1. Can you take care of your and your family’s basic needs, (my family is grown and gone.)
2. Feeling part of your community. Financial imbalance effects perceptions – judging, feeling judged and self-judgement.
3. Partner relationships. Cultural expectations of providing, being provided for, ability to provide, and changes in financial circumstances effect existing relationships and the prospects of new ones.
From a my male perspective and experience, even though there has been steady cultural progress, a man is expected to be the primary bread winner. Women suffer other expectations, but earnings is not nearly as important in a male’s partner selection criteria.
It will be interesting to see what shifts occur, especially as a result of the prolonged economy downturn and student bodies’ predominantly female makeup at most institutions of higher learning.
Well Ruth, I think you have touched a “third rail” topic–one we think a lot about but I don’t think we talk so much about it. One thing I really enjoy as a side benefit of the NICABM webinars is the really excellent and thought-provoking exchanges that take place on your comment board.
I am probably much older than most of your writers, and my case may differ from others because of that. In years past, before I became a therapist, I have had jobs that paid VERY WELL that I was miserable in–and I finally found the courage to leave that behind. In the therapy field, after getting my license and struggling to establish a private practice for a few years, I took and administrative/supervisory position in a nonprofit program. I found myself, once again, paid VERY WELL, and once again miserable. I did not go though all the years of clinical training and internship to be an administrator–I already did that.
So I left that job behind, and I am once more in a private practice where I do not make a great deal of money–partly because of my choice to deal mainly with referrals from the local mental health system for patients on public programs. The rates paid are low–about 1/3 of my stated hourly rate–but the patients I see are so truly in need, and I genuinely feel that I am making a difference with what I do. And that–at this advanced point in my life–is more satisfying for me that making lots of money.
That said, I am currently seeking ways to increase my income so that I don’t just cover my expenses, but actually make a little money for my efforts. I have finally decided to explore the world of getting on insurance panels and dealing with insurance providers. But as I decided to start that–interestingly, I am starting to get referrals for patients who are willing to see me on a fee-for-service basis. So this is a work in progress. But in the midst of it all, I am working with many children and their families, and I find that work so very fulfilling. So all in all, I am happy.
I have a bit of a different take on the matter of money. I have been a psychotherapist for 17 years now in private practice, and have never accepted insurance. Instead a have a very wide sliding scale ranging from 60-120 per hour. I base my fee on gross individual or family income. I keep my fee scale on the lower end because in working with high functioning clients with complex PTSD developmental trauma, the work is core transformational work, not just symptomatic and takes a long, long time–years of weekly work to effect deep characterological change. I have clients who have been with me as long as 16 years, moving up the sliding scale as they earn more,
and down as they lose jobs, become full time mothers, etc.
I shudder to think of charging my grad students or people between jobs more than $60 an hour. If you do the math, this can add up to more than 15% of their gross income at $20,000 just for psychotherapy services-48 weeks out of the year. I had one grad student, a lovely and brilliant man, sell his beloved musical instruments to afford his psychotherapy with me while he was interviewing for over a year to receive a job offer in health management while working on his second master’s degree. He never missed a payment in all his years, even while other debt accrued.
This economy is tough on people. I am privileged to have a 4 board certified cancer physician as a spouse who tells me to charge fairly, make it sustainable for clients to see me for years without it
having to break their accounts, and don’t get involved with insurance companies. All of my clients
have medical insurance but happily do not use it with me—also protects their privacy. I only see
clients 20 hours a week because I put a huge amount of energy/time into each one, writing extensive progress notes for myself to analyze what is happening in each session in order to improve my helpfulness.
Am I in an unusual situation? Absolutely. If I didn’t have a spouse as “benefactor”, what would I
do? My conflict is not what my work is worth. I know what it is worth as do my clients. My clients on the bottom of the scale value my work as much if not more than those at the top. I
understand people need to make a substantive living, but it turns my stomach when I see or hear about therapists in the cities charging $250-400 per 45 minute hour. What?!! Have we gone mad?!
Just because attorneys and other professionals do this, should we? Should I charge what my spouse receives who attended three ivy league schools and went to school plus internships/residencies forever and was over $200,000 in debt after all that training? Where does it stop? Do we only choose to work with the elite if we limit insurance payments/companies? Do we follow the pathway of boutique medicine now?
I am very conflicted regarding this whole situation. We are worthy as therapists. Our services are worthy–sometimes–when we are excellent, conscientious, well trained, and deeply present and attuned (which many aren’t). But our clients are worthy too. Worthy of not having to determine whether they can afford long term relational reparative work without selling off their worldly possessions or severely limiting the healthy produce they can afford at the grocery store. Have you shopped at whole foods lately? I have plenty of clients who cannot afford this luxury.
I love my profession. I love my clients. I am so blessed to do what I love! It is a deep honor.
They have already been through enough in their lives….trauma, degradation, abuse, and neglect.
I don’t want to inflict more suffering financially than necessary. How much is enough? How do we honor ourselves and our needs and the calling of our service of alleviating suffering with loving kindness, fairness, and compassion for others?
Do you value your clients who pay you more? Do you resent clients who are lower on your sliding scales? Do you have a sliding scale? If so, why? If not, why not? How do you calibrate your scale?
I don’t have the answers, but have plenty of conflicts. Sometimes, I wish I could just do pro bono across the board and eliminate this issue. Did this for 7 years early in my practice running groups when I was young, poor but happy!
Let us keep the convo going on this important issue!
Bravo! Good for you. Thank you for expressing my feelings as well. My only difference with you is that I have no conflict about charging what I do. Been in private practice for 38 years and feel blessed to do this work I love with people I care deeply about. What a privilege! It continues to be a spiritual journey for me as well as my clients. I learn and grow every session.
What would really take some bravery is for significant numbers of mental health practitioners to say, No, to the insurance companies. Enough unhappy customers and insurance companies may begin to initiate appropriate compensation.
PS I forgot to thank you for prianyg for me and my family. I am so glad to have friends like you out there. It was good that no one on the big island lost their lives. I heard this morning there was another earthquake over there, but just 4.0. Those poor people, they got hit with a horrible thunderstorm last night. I guess that’s not too good for tourism. Here on Oahu we have been pretty lucky.
For years I was an underearner – as I moved along in my recovery, Debtors Anonymous changed that as well as changing my relationship with money. I had never realized the spiritual aspect connected with earnings, compensation, worthiness, deservedness, etc. Experience with working a DA Program taught me how to respect & honor my skills as well as intention. I stood my ground with my self worth & when agencies demanded more for less I was not willing to accommodate. Today, in Private Practice, I offer sliding scale and a 50% discount to Seniors & Students (who are paying for their own counseling.) I teach about having a “Spending Plan” rather than a “Budget” which DA teaches is diminishing, restricting, etc. I refer most, if not all, of my clients to DA, which is available online for meetings, chats, etc.
thanks to a link from Ruth a year ago or so, I did a video seminar with Cassey Truffo, who speaks to this issue in a fun and encouraging way..If anyone wants to make more money, and feel ok about it, look her up, and sign up for a class. She is a therapist/coach who devotes herself to helping us, as therapists, succeed, which includes charging more, getting more, attracting more clients, finding our niche, looking at our services creatively..i.e. retreats, intensives (longer sessions) etc etc
I have to say, I increased my rates right after her class, to find insurance is still paying me, Im just making more! with no extra work! I also continue to think about how to do my dream work, and still earn money..
Great topic, and one so many therapists/psychologists get stuck on-me too! I will never forget the first time in private practice when I told a cash paying client my rate $140 (at that time) and it was SO hard to say.! but he didn’t blink..and wrote the check. Why is it harder for us than others?
In addition to all the wise previous comments, (for those of you who are social workers) let’s remember our social work origins and the core tenets of social work…to fight abuse that is systemic within our government and to work for human rights and social justice…that is for everyone accept us!
The reason unions came about was to fight abusive exploitation by employers. Now we have a slightly different situation whereby many unions have become corrupt and/or lazy… replaced by a highly dysfunctional and highly corrupt government where politicians vote and pass, or don’t pass, laws, according to how much money they get from corporations. Where government policies are made and then watered down by the insurance, pharmaceutical lobbyists and aides of the politicians. Government is a revolving door of former insurance, wall street and pharma executives who then work the halls of congress.
Meantime NASW (national association of social workers) does nothing to help raise the wages of social workers and stop the exploitation. NASW whose charter is human rights and social justice does not apply this to its members.
Let’s stop finding the fault within ourselves and look to a political system that continues to exploit workers, ignores poverty, our money making prison system that has incarcerated an enormous percentage of people suffering from emotional/addiction problems, a crumbling infrastructure, climate change and continues to spend billions of dollars every week on wars that are illegal and undemocratic, e.g. killing innocent people in foreign countries through the use of drone strikes.
Ruth just led us through two excellent series that emphasized the integrative approach to wellness and the huge role that “environment” plays. That includes our culture, which includes politics.
I’ve always found Europe and Canada more enlightened when it comes to mental health issues than America. The research and journal articles are more accessible. E.G. the Hearing Voices Movement in England, or Dr. Gabor Mate’s research in Canada.
I don’t think therapists of any kind, would have any problem being compensated for their work, it’s the exploitative factor that is challenging.
There’s always power in numbers, and our current system makes sure we are tired, overworked, or without community organization to keep us struggling and not organizing. Mental health organizations like NAMI and AA have excellent PR practices, cult like followers and perpetuate and exploit (replace one stigma with another) the myth that mental illness is inevitable and an “illness.”
Mental health issues will not be a priority, our salaries will be unbearably low, and agencies will exploit us until we become more educated and informed about politics and truly apply the integrative approach by making connections across all aspects of life. Let’s remember, the wealthy can get whatever they want whenever they need it.
There is a direct connection between our low wages and how afraid the 1% are of making changes.
Sara, I completely agree with your articulate and insightful comments! We must join together to regain our democracy in America and work to rebalance economic power so that the 99% can be fairly compensated and have access to equal opportunity in all areas of life–especially mental and physical health. In that effort, I’m enjoying much satisfaction working with the Move to Amend organization when I’m not working at changing the world one person at a time, trying to make enough money to survive myself. Thank you for speaking these truths!
Dear Ruth:
You are right on! However,as an individua, I find it difficult to move the mountain of insurance providers who are encroaching on the way I practice by setting up guidelines that they determine in in their best interests rather than their subscriber. I think that I have become and “insurance agent” or pay someone to be my insurance agent” for which there is no remibursement in order to collect patient’s insurance benefits. The real question then becomes a decision to continue working with a patient through their emotional crisises or limit their opportunity to find some equilibrium. I appreciate your efforts to open this much needed discussion relating to payment for services. It seems that each therapist must deal not only with the individual philosophy of the therapist but also the environmental factors that contribute to the dilemma.
When I began my practice, I charged $40.00/hour. I did okay. Had a good clientele, or so I thought. I took a class where the instructor said, basically, what you said above. If we don’t see our value, no one else will, either. So, I raised my rates to $75.00/hour and my clientele doubled! Immediately! I waited a year and raised my rates again to $90.00/hour and my clientele doubled again and I began attracting better clientele! Now I charge $110.00/hour and that seems to be the holding rate for my profession in my area. (Funny, I was the one to set the rates here…but I think it’s all the public will tolerate in this economy.)
I have, recently, returned to school to earn my degree in Human Services Management and I am amazed at the message that is given to the people in this industry. Too many messages of “there’s not enough money” for us. I disagree. I think there’s plenty of money…it’s a matter of tapping into it.
Thank you Ruth , for bringing an important topic amidst trauma and emotional healing.During mt occupational tenure of around four decades , I have come across various types of friends, relatives etc. People are desperate to make money irrespective of hardships imposed on their selves. In my professional life I have started with a meager salery of mere $4 every month initially later when I have put up a sixteen years of service it came around $ 50 a month. I have never ran behind money, and later money started chasing me. At the end of my service after around 4 decades I am able to draw a government pension of >$ 500 every month ,and my remaining life I am financially secured . I feel I am not attached to money making trauma .How ever I donate to various charities .orphenaged etc etc.
Thanks Ruth and everyone. I am a LCSW and Trauma therapist and have served as a therapist in agencies for mental health and developmentally disabled in New York. I wanted to add the challenge that I feel in that by leaving agency life and moving into private practice I will leave behind the populations that I have loved working with. In the currently structured system there is no support for therapist working with clients that have severe episodes in their history outside of agencies. I dream of a milieu setting in the community that could use and support the individual therapists and psychiatrist, thereby maximizing the individual gifts that Ruth spoke of and the personalized treatement that the state aspires to. Sadly, the mental health proposals in President Obama’s response to Sandy Hook, included “more oversight” which those of us who have been in agency work know means more paper, less face time. I dreamed of being able to bring the skills that I earned in practice and study to the neediest without suffering financial or emotional burnout, as do many, who responded here. But the last interview that I went on for agency work wanted me to serve 40-60
clients in a 22 hour a week fee for service position. They justified the numbers saying that many clients only sought treatment 1X a month. In the second interview they stated that the 22 hours a week represented 30 hours of work with concurrent documentation. I wish taxpayers understood that they are paying for paper work and not treatment and what those costs translate to. As a community of healers we are capable of doing so much more. I beleive that this state of affairs also effects my sense of my own value and efficacy, and therefore my belief in my financial value. I am going into private practice but with a sadness at leaving the populations that I was treating in public service. Love to hear others thoughts or suggestions. Particularly ways to approach statel or Federal reform.
It’s a practical problem look at how much money you need and how much money you want the two questions are different then decide what it is in life that is important in my case money has always been a side issue to what I want to do in my life I decide what I want to achieve and the money always appears, I dont know if it works the other way round?
On this topic of Money…you really should interview Dr. Ted Klontz and his son Dr. Brad Klontz they have three books out on money issues, and both blend the field of psychotherapy and financial planning.
I’ve been practicing for 30 years. I’ve just moved and will be starting a private practice. I feel the amount insurance will pay an LCSW is an insult for the experience I have and the skills I have developed. I get so stuck being afraid to ask for what I want and need that I work as an out of network provider and end up taking much less at times on a sliding fee scale than the insurance company would pay me. My fear of course is that if I don’t do this, I’ll not have any clients, so I get stuck between refusing to take what insurance companies will pay (when the do pay) and setting rates for what my skills are worth. I clearly need to some work on my expectations and beliefs.
If we do not value what we do, how can we expect others to value it. Money is energy. I noticed that when I gave my time and expertise away it was not valued. If I go to a lawyer, there is a set fee. If I hire a plumber there is a set fee. If they charge too little, I wonder if they are good at what they do.
I once offered a valuable workshop at a very low price to be inclusive. The feedback I got, “you get what you pay for, so I did not go.”
That person taught me a valuable lesson.
Sometimes I think that people who work hard and sacrifice to spend a long lifetime helping others…live in the hope that some day someone will help them, for it is they who need help, but, alas that help, in the end, never comes. Often these who so spend their lives, take their own lives, in sadness and despair…
John Quinn
Thank you Ruth for mentioning this topic. I have often struggled with feeling guilty for charging for consultative services or speaking engagements. I certainly beleive that society benefits from all professionals giving in pro bono work. However in the helping professions we can kid ourselves that there has to be a choice between helping and being paid. I have learnt to continue to help my community for free at times and to balance that with beign fair to myself.
Ruth, your bravery is contagious, so thank you! Thank you for your work which gives us all so many openings and tips to broaden our practice and be of better service to our clients. And thank you for addressing this “most unethical topic” : money!
Or is it? Unethical I mean. What if it was completely ethical? Or what if ethics had nothing to do with it?
One thing is for sure, we attach to money a lot more emotion and beliefs than we should! YOu are right, Ellen.
I long thought that you can’t ask money to a person who comes to you because they have a problem, since money is a problem for everybody anyway (limiting belief 1). And then I thought that they’ll think I’m only interested in the money (limiting belief 2).
I used to be an IT engineer, and even though money had always been taboo in my culture, at least I was bringing in a good salary. Then depression drove me to a new life and discovering what I was really meant to do, and suddenly money became even more taboo, so much so that there was none. There’s no money in helping others (limiting belief 3).
I heard recently Stacey Vornbrock saying something that made the penny drop for me. In essence, she was saying you need to know WHY you have chosen your life. And your WHY cannot be money. Because there will be tough times, and money as a WHY will not sustain your will through these. You need a really good motivation to keep your objective in tough times (she’s right on that one too!!!)
It clarified for me that money is simply a HOW!
I am very clear about my WHYs, I’ve changed my life because I believe I can help people find their way through stress and difficult times to become better people.
My HOWs include keeping myself informed of the latest findings by getting training, having an infrastructure to meet clients (office, computer, phone..), being able to have time to give my clients… and money is just one tool that allows me to get my job done.
Our body is a delicate balance of many elements, some in tiny amounts, like trace elements, some in very large amounts, like water. All of them are necessary for our balance, each in the right quantity and quality.
Money is a fact of life indeed, part of the delicate balance of our lives. The question is : what is the right amount!?! Agree with Anna Leigh and Dawn Baker above. Little is not necessarily the best option!
So I replaced my limiting beliefs above with supporting beliefs :
1. Money is NOT the problem, what we make of it might be. I choose to use it for everybody’s highest good, me included.
2. Money is only a HOW, I am clear about my WHYs. Money needs no more guilt or ethics attached to it than does a phone. The way we use it needs to follow ethics. And receiving money for my services is part of the balance of life.
3. It’s ok to earn a good living helping others, and the better the earning, the more pro bono work I can do.
Pfew! Now that money is out of the way, I can focus on doing what’s really important : deliver my services to as many people as possible so they can take their own well-being in their hands and improve their lives (and the lives of their loved ones as a collateral benefit – I love my job!).
I have to say it took bravery to discuss this here for me, but I believe sharing our issues, whether about us or our clients, and learning from each other can bring us all one step beyond in all areas. Our main area is improving people’s health at all levels. We can participate in a better, healthier economy too, let’s do it!
Christine, everything you say here makes great sense. Well written comment!
I almost went into private practice in the summer of 2012. Concerns about cash flow, in particular through MaineCare, the Medicaid system here in Maine, held me back. I work for an FQHC where I head our small behavioral health department as well as my work as a mental health therapist specializing in treatment of trauma related disorders. I am well paid, feel supported by my CEO. The 5 day/ 40 hr week takes its toll, however; 63 years old, becoming less active. Also have no retirement fund or plan other than Social Security, so expect to keep working indefinitely, cutting back some once I reach 66. If a universal healthcare system is realized, where we could be more assured a reliable income, private practice would be more viable for clinicians such as myself. Otherwise, working in an economically depressed area, we cannot hope for more. Thank you for looking into this subject!
I had a talk with my husband, who is a carpenter just this morning about earning money and we found out that there is this rigid pattern in both of us: it is too scary to have a bank account that is above 0! What if something happens and we fall off this “wealthy” pillar?!!! I have that same pattern about happiness: it is better to stay where it is dark and sad just so it won’t hurt so much to be surprised by something “bad” from the outside. Do you know what I mean? We are avoiding the experience of shock, which we have often had in life threatening situations in our family is my guess about it. So maybe we have to come to terms with that to allow ourselves more “wealth” in different ways of life. But can somebody please help us with that? That is very hard to reach and scary and emotional and alive and all those things. So these are my thoughts for now. All the best and greetings from Germany
SO true, Ruth. Listen up, you guys, and don’t end up on the breadline because you either did too much pro bono or didn’t charge anywhere near enough for what were, in retrospect, truly amazing and effective skills.
Here’s sort of a goofy twist on this subject that came from watching an episode of “The Dog Whisperer” (who says he practices ‘dog psychology’ rather than ‘dog training’). Cesar Milan said that he was charging a reasonable fee for his services, but noticed a tendency in his clients to be dismissive of his advice, and to quickly lose momentum in implementing new behaviors. Oddly, his clients really started taking him seriously and implementing his recommendations only after he raised his fee to a really substantial amount. Certainly, in my line of work, there’s a tendency to assume that the most expensive performer must be the best.
Great topic! I have been thinking of increasing the rate people pay for a session after I finished S E, since these courses are very expensive and to keep up I go to supervisions which also costs money. However, I have not done this jet since I am still struggeling with enlarging my number of clients. I am thinking of to write some psychiatrist to see if there is anyone interested in a collaboration with me who conentrate on bofy work. This problem of not having enough clients is also keeping me from being payed the amount I think I should get. Happy for any advice. Although I consider myself to be very courageous, this one is a tuff one. Thank you Ruth!
I dealt with this, I guess 15 yrs ago, when I switched from working for various Govt Depts, to working for myself. I always gave a good service, including followup emails – so I couldn’t just see the person, I had to do my best. However, that meant I was paid well, and the clients were happy. My integrity is important, and being paid became important too. When you work for a Dept, its invisible, however when you charge per session, you have to be clear about what you are offering. In Schema terms, i ticked my SS (Self Sacrifice) and doing a good job – I no longer have US – unrelenting standards. I haven’t thought about it for years ‘n years. Best wishes to those at the beginning of the journey.
As a former hippie, I had some prejudice against making money and it messed me up more than a few times.
For a person who wasn’t supposed to be concerned with money, I found myself thinking about money waaay too often since I didn’t have much and was stressed when any unexpected (or even expected) expense came up.
Later, when I became a therapist, first I worked at a mental health center and noticed that my clients, even those low on the sliding scale fee, were lives much better than I was (they could afford to take the whole family to Disney World, for example, when I could barely afford to take mine down the block).
I decided, as you have discussed, Ruth, to examine my unhelpful beliefs about money and made some changes. I had inherited some of those beliefs via my parents and some from society, but I had developed others of them on my own.
It took me some time, but I finally challenged and changed some of those unhelpful ideas and am now able to do more charitable things, as well as have some peace of mind around my someday retirement.
I think what you have written, Ruth, is so important for us all. Thanks for raising this subject and handling it with such delicacy and grace.