Treating the Scars of Abandonment: How to Work with the Enduring Impact
with Bessel van der Kolk, MD; Janina Fisher, PhD; Karlen Lyons-Ruth, PhD; Ruth Lanius, MD, PhD; Martin Teicher, MD, PhD; Pat Ogden, PhD; Usha Tummala-Narra, PhD; Eboni Webb, PsyD; Martin Bohus, PhD; Megan Schmidt, PsyD; Ruth Buczynski, PhD
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Thank you, very helpful Ruth.
My biggest takeaway was from Janina, helping my client approach self approach by degrees, I will definitely implement this in my sessions. Thank you.
My two take aways from this free session: 1. asking a client if one or both parents were frightened and/or frightening and 2. the social rejection network in persons (both of which may apply to clients who deny typical traumatic experiences. I’ll be getting the gold package soon! Thank you! Very informative and inspiring.
The topic was interesting, but the modules weren’t thorough enough and the answers to the questions in the modules weren’t made clear enough in the presentation.
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Sorry to hear you were not satisfied with the broadcast. Please note that what we are broadcasting is only a portion of the program and does not contain all the information that one would receive from the “Gold Package”. We hope that you with stay with us for our future broadcasts.
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Thank you.
the ideas from this session help to give me strategies for healing both myself and my eldest boy, who has BPD
This was incredible. I am a patient. It was so informative. I took several pages of notes I will refer to in healing. Also cried a few times. Thank you so much, and thank you for making it free – some of us are unemployed or underemployed due to the effects of this trauma.
There was great information! Is there a transcript available?
Thank you for the gentleness taken with this topic. That energy will allow helping professionals, to be inspired by this work. My takeaway was to address panic attack in a way of a person having self-awareness it is happening. Taking away their shame of having one. Thank you for all that you do.
Tiffany S. Porter, LMHC
tporter@equinoxinc.org
With my newly learned perspective that BPD is really an essential trauma like complex PTSD, and not really a personality disorder, I can approach counseling with a different, more compassionate & time sensitive therapy, allowing the client to move toward healthier relationships as they can tolerant their triggers evoking the abandonment fears. I have learned how significant it is to slow down the therapeutic process to allow the client to feel safe with me as a constant person in their lives & recovery so it becomes less frightening for the client.
EMDR is a great specific way of helping our clients to process one traumas on a more one by one basis. I have always presented that to my clients that having both forms of counseling is a very effective treatment for their internal sense of worthiness …
I suggest that an EMDR session be followed up with a processing therapy session soon after (at best weekly) to get the maximum benefit from each. I feel reinforced listening today that my recommendation to do so is a good one according to what trauma therapy should look like. I believe from listening to the experts recommendations that I am following the newest recommendations. I hope I’ve correctly understood these principle ideas, and have learned & can apply them to my work with the most trauma effected clients.
I hope to learn more! Thanks to all of you!
First of all, thank you for the opportunity to communicate about a very important and informative lecture. As an emotional intelligence professional and the self-liberated daughter of a family of survivors from Auschwitz, I very much appreciate the clinical approaches you are exploring for handling abandonment / attachment issues. It was helpful in that I was able to mirror on my coaching approach. The synchronicity I shared in much of what was presented here is very encouraging.
From a birds eye perspective, the only comment I felt strongly opposed to during this talk, is the notion that deeply traumatised individuals who cope with abandonment and attachment issues are incapable of true compassion. Although my background may be unique (the story still doesnt define me, anyone for that matter, but how we deal with it does.), any therapist who approaches abandonment issues by defining a client based on their story, such as with my connection to the holocaust, is where many therapists fall short – again, this is based on my private research and my family being a deeply studied subject matter on my healing journey.
Although perhaps it sounds a bit more radical then what mainstream behavioural therapy may go, practicing radical facing of the fear presents the patient with a safe way to go through an kind of ego death that connects them to the program of total abandonment (something which I recently worked through personally due to some major life changes). Facing f.e.a.r. (as in false evidence appearing real), is the most effective and direct approach to overcoming such an emotionally crippling affliction.
If a therapist has no direct experience with such things (and yes I appreciate the next module on the use of psychedelics in treatment as a tool- for which I have a well formed opinion as well of course ;o)), they are essentially not going to be of much help for abandonment cases.
My apologies for the long winded comment, but this is an area of research that is of great interest to me for obvious reasons I would think. My sincere gratitude for giving ‘laymen and mundanes’ an opportunity to understand the mechanics behind clinically developed cognitive approaches to dealing with trauma look like. I very much look forward to the next lecture!
Sincerely
Michaela Sorrentino
mich@project-gnosis.com
Thank you for your work on this field. As a mundane myself 😉 the point on compassion really resonated with me. I’m sharing in case it’s useful. The focus seemed to be on self-compassion. I immediately remembered moments of terror in therapy, this sense of being in free fall – absolute terror without an obvious trigger (not obvious to me in session that is.) Now, I understand that directly invoking self-compassion was too much for me in those moments. I can see that self-compassion didn’t feel safe for me. The takeaway was a need for gradually approaching self-compassion, in particular focusing on the age of those parts within – recognizing how young these parts are helps with allowing some self-compassion. It’s really scary. I loved the idea of building attachment within.
That was very enlightening by the way, I suffered abandonment and traumatic invalidation as a child and this explains alot about my conflicting feelings towards parents, being close to people and at times mistrust of those that care about me. Still working on it, gaining insight, getting to the truth of it and how I contribute to conflict or any disatisfaction generally in relationships.
Thank you so much for the presentation. It was informative and validational on so many levels.
How you view yourself is how u treat yourself.
I am so glad that therapy is assisting more people to become stronger than what tried to hurt them
Thank you for such informative and cutting edge presentations. Thus one especially where you de-pathologise borderline personality disorder and the sudden need to attachment based on compassion and gentle validation.
Thank you for noting the existential isolation of an un-validated victim of abandonment trauma. Personally, I found underneath a lot of trauma processing a terrifying dreadful ‘space’ where I was just floating in darkness with literally no one anywhere at all. There was just no one else. It was such a dread-filled experience and the only experience I’ve repeatedly tried but can’t sit with long enough for any movement. It literally feels like dying or imploding. I had faced everything else and found this at the ‘end’ – this dark existential nothing and no one. Just me in eternity. 🤷🏼♀️
I’m very interested in hearing more about the deep brain change process you mentioned prior to EDMR.
I’d like to Invite use of trigger warnings for traumatic stories eg rats eating infant’s ears in crib.
Again, thank you so much for all the work you have put into this. Feeling very grateful.
yes, that story being told in such a lengthy detail was perhaps unnecessary. otherwise, I do appreciate Dr Webb’s ability to articulate and engage with viewers.
October 11, 2023- Treating the scars of abandonment: How to work with the Enduring Impact?
Very insightful and informative session. My take away from today’s session was the three step process used. I will surely be utilizing it with my clients.
They were as followed:
1. Explain the “road map” of the therapy. Making the therapuetic framework predictable for the clients.
2. Forming an internal representation. This was practical and easy to understand.
3. Processing the abandonment. I sincerely appreciate the concepts I received from this step. Especially about compassion and survival. And to need to approach it by degrees; in order to get the clients interested.
Thanks again for this timely session.
Regards,
Reneé Mair
I’m a lay person but have read The Body Keeps the Score” and Trauma and Recovery” by Judith Herman. However, it is hearing your voices speak with compassion that is having the most impact on me. My healing journey from childhood trauma is just beginning at 66 and I hope it is not too late.
I am still processing mine at age 67. I don’t think it is too late. With compassion for you on your journey, Pat
Go, Laura, and Pat, and all of us, healing and grace to you.
For years I have taken the stance of using trauma therapy for BP clients as it just makes sense…Together with IFS methods, it really helps, but severe separation anxiety and an absolute fear of abandonment I have found very difficult for pts to work with and they can be so scared of losing the therapist too. I look forward to weaving in the strategies discussed today. Thank you so much
Thank you for todays session, Excellent.
Just profound gratitude for all that its being brought forth. The healing is in the receiving. And the differing of MPD being rooted in trauma and not just personality is brilliant. Thank you Janina. Imagining the ventral response of, and impact on, clients when viewing their condition through this lens. Obrigado.
I have a client who has Borderline Personality Disorder. Sometimes I feel afraid to go deeper in case I trigger her. But now, as explained in todays session, that fear has been eased as I can now work with her Trauma Disorder rather than focusing on the label of Borderline Personality Disorder.
NICABM… another wonderful training with so many wise minds! Thank you
Janina Fisher’s reference to therapist’s empathy and compassion having possible negative impact on some clients due it then leading to hunger for more, needing it from an external source etc. This was so insightful and I’m so pleased psychological understanding has come to the place that we understand this. We are here as guides, like the plaster to realign a broken bone is a guide, but the healing happens within the clients and we all have the capacity to heal! Irrespective of diagnosis we all have the capacity to heal with a healthy guide.
Thank you very much for allowing me to get more constructive in my work. I have 2 clients with history of abandonment and at the end of the sessions I always felt the need to make sure to tell them that “I’ll be here for you”, “I’ll accompany you in this journey” etc anything that declared some kind of continuity from my part. Now I understand why I had this urge, I sensed their reluctance to let go of me. I will definitely use the recording of my voice, because we do relaxation exercises anyway. Again, I cant thank you enough for these webinars. I send my gratitude from Greece
Meanwhile the NHS is criminalising distress and sending traumatised patients into the criminal justice system because if they really meant it, they wouldn’t have survived the attempt. UK is way behind in trauma treatment.
Understanding that neglect and abandonment in infancy lead to attachment issues, what if the neglect and abandonment didn’t happen prior to 2years of age, yet happened post infancy. Is there a difference in intensity or symptoms based on what age the trauma happened?
I would love to hear more about this question.
I am not a clinician, however this info is very pertinent to the understanding of multi-generational abandonment issues.. that is, to being the grandmother, mother, daughter simultaneously. Deep thanks.
I will be addressing with my client how they can feel closer to the people that matter to them, when away from them, having that internal representation which helps to mitigate the fear of being without them.
I am researching medical traumatic stress in people who have undergone multiple surgeries in childhood. I am fascinated by the research into abandonment. I am intrigued as to how this might relate to children/young people who have to negotiate the hospital environment, extended recovery, and potential bullying as a result of appearance changing treatment.
Wonderful to see this being researched. Thank you.
I work with parents who have violent adopted children. I often hear that when they try and remove themselves from conflict this causes the situation to escalate further and the child will follow them and continue to “push buttons” to maintain engagement and will ramp up the violent behaviour. The information today will help parents understand why their child responds in this way and will allow them to develop alternative de-escalatory strategies which can alleviate the potential fear of abandonment.
Dr Fisher’s question “have you ever experienced fear for one of your parents” was crucial as an eyeopener to me in regard to opening up a patient’s awareness for his/her possible traumatic past. (Unfortunately Dr Buczynski misquoted it later as “have you ever had a fearful parent” – which is not, what I reckoned, Dr Fisher was referring to.)
I read below that I might have misunderstood Dr Fisher’s quote. The right version seems to be the question: “Was either of your parents ever frightened or frightening.” So that’s the eyeopener question posed by Dr Fisher. Thank you all for this session!
The idea that Borderline is a trauma response and not a personality disorder makes so much sense for the people I know with this diagnosis and the idea that healers (even friends) may awaken or trigger the desperation for attachment. Thank you.
Do you think it is better to use EMDR more than Brainspotting with clients with traumatic experiences?
It will help me to connect with more empathy to my ex’s new partner who has the diagnosis of BPD. Her behaviour adversely affects the children and it worries me. Now perhaps I can see her differently and react differently to her, which could be helpful. Thank you.
It is so heartbreaking to see kids being chronically affected by parents, step parents and other caregivers, ours from mental illness and alcoholism. I am a grandmother who has watched this happening to our grandchildren, now age 7 and 11, since the 11 yo was a toddler. Watching with the inability to really help the adults for fear of them keeping the children from us. We have been the only stabilizing and understanding constants in their young complicated lives. We just keep listening, hugging and loving them! We have a stack of books about emotions that we read.
I will look at my patients gently and knowledging they might have experienced abandonment trauma.
Such a useful module to top up my CBT and LTC training/ work, specifically working with dissociation, FND and BPD in the context of cPTSD. Working from the biopsychosocial framework In short, I agree completely with this essential shift away from DSM-5 personality disorders and considering the developmental trauma components.
I loved the approach where you build the client’s self-compassion by encouraging her to be interested in her traumatized child part, listen to it, let it know that she understands the trauma, and then soothe it.
This really help me to understand the push and pull of borderline personality. I have a niece that was adopted and has ADHD. She has many issues with socializing in school. I will pass on what I learned to her parents. I am hoping that this helps them find the right therapist.
Thank you.
I will create awareness of borderline personality disorder, as many times in the field I have encountered too many clinicians unwilling to provide therapy and support to the individual in need! Due to the very behaviors that occur because of the intense fear of abandonment and wanting to connect. If it is confusing for the clinician, I can only imagine how confusing it is for the individual in need of support.
Very insightful especially for a person with trauma who has gone through the process of self compassion. Great techniques to use as well as self reflection piece
I really appreciate the concept of traumatic invalidation. Also, the mention of how though we embrace vulnerability in therapy, how it can be threatening for clients who have gone through trauma.
I’m particularly going to apply strategies mentioned to develop self- compassion.
Very helpful. Especially how you layed-out the relationship between Borderline Personality Order and the threat of abandonment. I also found the suggestions for physical exercises helpful.
Thank you!
Janet
Norway.
I absolutely appreciate the shift in approach to BPD! For years, I have felt this way and worked accordingly within my scope and practice. Many thanks!
good for you to realize this for years! i’m sure that many have been helped by your early insight. pk
my biggest take-away was to recognise the possibility of hypoarousal as a “preparation for death” response to the attachment cry need not being in abandonment trauma. This understanding will help me plan out a framework for moving through the assessment of trauma with the client to better understand and determine the source of hypoarousal
Compassion not always compatible survival
I thought the phrase “Were either of your parents frightened or frightening? ” was particularly useful.
I agree. Very powerful!
yes, very!
This was very helpful, especially liked how you discussed Borderline, I have worked with Borderline for years and came to look at this way so this session was very affirming. Also in addition to EMDR, I would encourage folks to look into Accelerated Resolution Therapy which also uses the eye movements. Its structure and protocol is extremely helpful in helping people move through their processing of trauma. I am trained in both EMDR and ART and found ART more grounding and safer for clients.
I’m intrigued! I have heard of ART, but not your type of experience with it yet. I am in a military community so this is valuable information. Thank you!
I ‘d love to know where does one go to learn ART therapy ?Any good sites like NICABM !
thank you
Very poignant and beautiful how BPD is trauma disorder!! Thanks
Pre Defined Emotional Network, Fear of Abandonment Network and Social Rejection Network was an eye opening approach for me to consider and start working around it.
thank you for the amazing work you do sharing knowledge with experts around the world!
AMAZING
Awesome session!, I especially appreciated input provided by Ruth Lanius. The information presented today is so valuable.
What does one do if the patient does not have anyone close to them that they CAN internalise?
It was so mind-changing to understand why encouraging self-compassion has garnered such resistance. I like this approach much better. Thank you.
I will focus and strengthen work with patients on inner child attachment excercises