The Neurobiology of Attachment
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with Dan Siegel, MD ;
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with Dan Siegel, MD; Ruth Lanius, MD, PhD; Allan Schore, PhD; Bessel van der Kolk, MD; and Ruth Buczynski, PhD
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I find Pat Ogden’s idea of the healing quality of the experience that a choice is being offered very powerful. More so when combined with ways to be able to notice the body. Thank you for this and other interesting insights.
I have begun working with youth at risk at a school in Ontario. Thank you for this session, it reminded me of some things I already knew and taught me some new things as well. I will work with parts, and encourage the youth to share with me what is comfortable. I will continue on encouraging them to tap into their own wisdom and will try to become more creative in how I work with them. Thank you so much!
Thank you NICABM for offering these live interviews and modules this whole week. I am continuing with my various therapies (EMDR was not very successful for me last year) but I am still in the care of the Dutch System at Mondriaan and hope to begin to learn more about the Self-Compassion modules I recently purchased through you and begin to apply the methods to my every day life.
Looking forward to continuing with NICABM series.
Here is Sarit Seltzer from Israel, a qualified therapist who combines arts and mindfulness in therapy, thank you for the connections made today, completely resonate with the quality of creativity needed in working with people dealing with trauma.
I love this idea, but cannot afford the Gold membership. I am a school counselor and a community therapist. Today’s session was so super useful that I would LOVE to watch it again. We are working with siblings at my school who are having major behavioral concerns related to persistent trauma. They are both diagnosed with ODD and have been very aggressive with “friends”, showed shut down with teachers, and have become overly attached to adults, yet refuse to accept kindness and praise.
Melanie S., Other, Nevada
I am struck by the relevance of this series to the times we are living in, aware of the many ways that humans are experiencing trauma; the tools for healing and reconcilation are ever more needed around the globe.
These first two presentations have been fascinating, informative, and a lot to digest for someone without related education or training. I signed up, because I have a slightly older sister who began to exhibit psychosis some 10 years ago. Now, 74, strongly medicated, has become almost totally non-communicative; possibly with a dual diagnosis of psychosis and dementia. She is lost to me, and I suspect I am mostly lost to her as regards emotional attachment. We live 3,000 miles apart; my communication with her is mostly limited to phone calls and mail. I wish to ‘reach her’ through these means, but am not very successful. Still, there are glimmers of connection, at times. probably never know the cause of her psychosis, but the brilliant presentation on infancy/childhood lack of (or insufficient) attachment with the caregiver – especially true for this sister – is laying the groundwork for me to re-explore what i can of the early years of a dysfunctional, detached childhood and how she developed into adulthood. At the least, I can take what I have learned and explore different ways to try to reach her. Am especially grateful today for Dr Shore’s contributions, and Dr Ogden’s discussing her therapeutic practices.
Incidentally, I, as the last of four children born into this increasingly dysfunctional family, can reconnoiter with my own development; I too am in my 70s and feel some more hope for reaching a measure of wholeness myself! Thanks to each presenter so far, for meaningful contributions. Thanks to all for your research and your compassion.
** Is left-handedness relevant in the discussion of interference in the right brain development? **
I’m not a specialist but have studied massage therapy for 30 years, and have a personal interest in the left/right physiology. It matters a lot in coordination patterns, and therefore body integration which is a specialty in my massage practice. My perspective/understanding that that being left handed or even better, ambidextrous, is often a sign that there is greater communication across the corpus callosum, the part of the brain that connects the left and right hemispheres, sending their signals to the matched side of the body. Left brain largely controls right side of body, and right brain largely controls left side of body. The brain is actually quite plastic so this general idea is only that: general. Any increase in crossover in the corpus callosum is generally a good thing.
I am a left handed person myself for eating, handwriting, and carrying, but right handed for scissors, all sports, lifting, and piano (lack of left hand practice), and ambidextrous for massaging, hammering, painting and reaching. I suspect that most left handed people are actually far more ambidextrous than are most right handed people simply as we learned to adapt to a world set up for right handedness.
Also, because of the neural plasticity, anybody can practice more with a non dominant hand to improve that informational crossover. My right handed son practiced piano diligently for 4 months and finally it felt like a part of his coordination lit up so that finally his left hand could play something different than his right hand and have both hands synched up even though they were playing different notes and rhythms.
Finally, Brain Gym and Brain Buttons are body based exercises that specifically work to increase left/right coordination in both brain and body.
I loved Pat’s strategy of offering “choice”, even as to where the client wanted to sit in the room. I really see how that early on ’empowerment’ could help the client to focus when being encouraged to upregulate their positive emotions before getting down to the real problems that brought them to the room in the first place.. I also really appreciated the idea that kindness can be a trigger, particularly as it relates to over-exposure/disclosure and subsequent feelings of non-safety. This is something I will definitely try to be aware of in future work with traumatised clients. It was a fascinating session. Thank you!
My personal preference for a successful therapy session does not include the overly compassionate and/or empathetic commentary. I have identified myself as being in the minority when preferring a goal oriented session that may include visual prompts and physical awareness. I now have a basis for this preference thanks to Dr. Siegel and all. Invaluable information here.
That sounds healthy and self-protective. it avoids over-personalizing what is a clinical transaction. For example, Dr. Schore pointed out the client is in the vulnerable right brain subconscious part of the brain. But the professional is in her left brain mode, the scientific, emotionally detached observer mode, clinical and analytical. The client is at risk for revealing personal intimate details that were formerly hidden from her conscious self. It tricks her into a sense of false intimacy and trust but it is one-sided.
A male therapist has pointed out that when a client discloses deeply private, personal defenses or adaptations for the first time, she feels as though she has an emotional bond with the therapist. But she doesn’t.Therefore, it is advisable for a client to stay in control and avoid emotional vulnerability.
Hello!
This was a fantastic talk, and I’m grateful to have gotten to hear it!
This question is for any providers present.
After the great webinar yesterday, I emailed the NICABM contact email asking for referrals for a trauma-informed provider, and as they do not have a directory, they recommended that I ask in the comments on their content, so here I am 🙂
I am in Illinois (Chicago) with BCBS PPO, if anyone knows of a place to find a trauma-informed provider who can work with those factors, or if you are one yourself, please let me know!
I have already tried Psychology Today, and they do not filter appropriately for people who are actually trauma-informed, and I have yet to meet one who is.
Thank you very much if you had the chance to read this!
My biggest take away was being aware of how my compassion and empathy may be triggering to someone who was groomed and abused. To be aware and keeping that in mind, and in check.
The two sessions have left their mark and have made me more curious. I am currently training to be a peer support for stage four cancer patients as well as peer support for Binge Eating Disorder patients, with a background in Gestalt Therapy and Family Constellation. Personally, what struck me most was the information about Cortisol in utero. My mother’s body developed anti-bodies to the fetus that was to become me, and doctors did a blood exchange in utero. I have often wondered if that has ‘set up’ the brain to be more anxious throughout my life until a few years ago. And what choices does an unborn child have to regulate when experiencing threat other than taking in nourishment? Joining some dots here, perhaps. Thanking you for giving of your time and expertise.
I will use it in general conversation time that occurs after two 30 minute sessions of group meditation with a 10 minute walking meditation between. After those sessions we have15 to 20 minutes of unregulated discussion, sitting in a circle before the inmates are released back to their units. This time can be useful for folks to share their experience and bring personal study material before the group. This is a weekly meditation group available to prison inmates who sign up to participate.
Would you please comment (briefly) on the relationship of chronic or severe illness with the victim characteristics resident in the body
I’d like to share a strategy:
I have been teaching American English to people of all ages – 4 to 73, from over 132 countries, speaking probably, over 165 “first languages.” Their languages, cultural upbringing, belief systems, sense of self, and life experiences are brought into our time together. Of course, each person brings her or his own uniqueness and mental health status.
Some show more than the expected stresses. Sometimes they ask for help or advice. Other times I guess at “trouble” in what they say or write. Most of my students have been teenagers or older and in an academic setting, so I can privately suggest “talking to someone.” Some have turned to their families or faith advisors but “they don’t understand.” Some are afraid.
Because the concept of trusting a counselor or therapist is new, my strategy is as follows: If they ask me, or if I notice something, I discuss the situation a little, privately. Sometimes, just venting is enough, or we can figure out a solution together, or at least something to try.
If it looks like whatever is going on is deeper, I mention the concept of a counselor. I tell my student that I will be their advocate or matchmaker, and that I will be available to them on the side. I emphasize what privacy means in the USA. (They can tell me if they want a different counselor, for example. The language for saying “no” is very tricky.) They only need to confirm that they have heard from someone in the counseling department.
Then, I talk to my contacts in the counseling department and explain a little about the student’s basic background. The counseling dept takes it from there. The student is contacted and they start. I don’t ever mention it to the student unless he or she brings it up. I had one student tell me over a year later that she had been going once a week. She thanked me and said she had “figured things out.”
Thank You so very much. If I could financially afford the Gold Membership, I certainly would join on that level. Your information is invaluable. It sends hope up my spine that their are professional who specialize in treated people who have been so harmed that they had to fragment themselves. Although the recovery or integration rate of individuals afflicted may not be as high as it could be. Your trainings can help some people who open up enough to heal and that is a blessing. Your work and efforts are priceless. The great poet, Kahlil Gibran writes, “Work Is Love Made Visible” Thank You so much for your work!!! Thank You for training others and giving tools to professionals who dedicate themselves to working with this complex human experience. Life can be so beautiful and I wish that others get a chance to experience more than fear and deregulation.
Wonderful presentation. I appreciated Ogden’s explanation of the 3 ideas to elicit inner wisdom in a client. I will definitely implement that strategy.
Siegel’s talk about kindness and/or opening up too much or too soon eliciting trauma is a very real thing. That is exactly what happened to me 3 or 4 times with therapists many years ago. I never went back to any of them. In fact, those experiences led me to deep training in shamanism instead. Listening to him say this I can sense an opening toward closure on this matter for myself. I have always known this and sought ways to help my clients in the ways I wish those therapists worked with me.
Thank you for this session. I feel a great sense of compassion, softness and respect around the teachings.
As usual I am indebted to all who make these seminars possible. .the more arresting moment was learning that the warmth of the therapist can be a trigger. As a somatic therapist I felt the recognition in my body oF the significance of this insight. Thank you. I have two different couples, each of whom has a member always suspicious of their partner’s good will or empathy.
This insight feels like a perspective that will assist them and me is going deeper and untangling the underlyiNg dynamic.
Thank you. Everything being presented is helpful in so many ways. I am presenting at an NGO Team Training this week. I will suggest they sign up to gain an understanding of trauma, and support their clients. Thank you.
Finally, you are talking about impacts in the womb relative to maternal stress, attitudes towards having the baby at all, perhaps abortion attempts, etc. There is much more than cortisol to consider.
What about trauma due to being the sole survivor of a multiple pregnancy, and witnessing the death of womb mates? one can come into born life as a survivor commando, or a collapsed victim. Both setting into place trauma responses that can only be fully resolved through bodywork and accessing body wisdom to lead the way.
I am not a therapist but was referred to this series by a friend. My thoughts: I can imagine that by first examining early childhood development and trauma associated therein would be relevant in diagnosing and treating the present condition of the individual. Extremely engaging and helpful information with the best therapists in the field. Thank you!
Very useful info here. Since we do equine assisted psychotherapy sessions, the relationship with a horse or horses often evolves into trust for the humans nearby preventing the overexposure of the clients.
Very useful and grateful for that
Well, I typed detailed ideas…they seemed to disappear. In summary … WOW…so many strategies for the complexities of relational and interpersonal principles for healing developmental disruptions.
This has been an excellent presentation thus far, with loads of information from key practitioners in the field. I appreciated the reminders of our ability as clinicians to help clients towards healing through exploring and addressing the painful dysregulated parts. I feel re-energized to continue my work with clients. In my private practice, I see individuals primarily with trauma and anxiety. I plan to use the concepts in creating more interventions with couples and families that incorporate mind and body. This would be especially helpful for clients who have experienced racial trauma or are dealing with racial stress.
I have been (painfully) reminded to pay attention to the traumatized child who lacked a mature attachment figure, learned to come out fighting for her survival, and reverts to this when triggered as an adult, a strategy that repeatedly causes her to destroy relationships and lose professional respect. Thank you for reminding me to engage the traumatized part, not trying to bring rational discussion to the adult.
Just interesting for learning about trauma and how it effects one’s life from a personal perspective, trying to understand how what happened in my upbringing effected the rest of my life (& perhaps ways of making my life better now in older age).
I particularly enjoyed the information:
cotisol in the mother during pregnancy effects the brain development in babies, larger amigdyla with excess cortisol
attachment type one develops can elicit behaviors/responses from others in life
the emphasis on the body — past trauma remains in the body and becoming aware of what is going on there
emphasis on positive behavior and why drilling down on the whys of that before going into how it got waylaid
Thank you for the information.
I’m a student so I am so appreciative of the opportunity to view this series for free! Listening to the sessions thus far has asserted my decision to lean more toward EBT as a preferred technique. Attachment is so important and I have been able to incorporate much of what I have learned with my own children. Secure attachment is, I believe, the most fundamental building block of early development. If I can help just one person find healing via therapy so they can repeat healthy parenting patterns with their children or just find peace, it would be worth the time spent to help someone else.
Would this be useful for a client?
therapeutic relationship is the key to healing
paths are many truth is one
therapies are any healing is one
the map is not the territory
Great sessions! I am not a professional in certification but in experience with our two adopted children. We brought them home at 8 months old. As young teens they began exhibiting what I believe I recognize as epigenetically caused fetal emotional trauma because of information their birth mother gave us about her trauma while pregnant. I have to say that it is very important, no, critical, for therapeutic professionals to make sure to take into consideration pre-natal trauma when adoptees become patients! Thank you.
Hello, I am really enjoying the series. So far, I have gotten some excellent information to use with my traumatized clients as I work with the military. Thanks you so much for this offering!
Val Stanowski
Manitoba, Canada
This program was excellent! Approaching from the perspective of the client’s experience, though yet unknown, and their own
perceptions and understanding of others intentions is paramount importance for being able to reach, disarm, and allow them to move towards a more healthy and empowered existence. As said during the presentations, although in different lingo, it can be a push pull with initiation of a gesture or question and the possible response/ reaction. A really strong point is how someone with Trauma might interpret a smile as a threat if they were abused by a smiler. I also appreciated asking the client, or other where they wanted to sit, and if any touching was to take place, that it would happen on their terms to their level of comfort and personal safety. Grateful for your work Jennifer Dreaper, Singer songwriter, Former Director of Activities, Member Healing Touch International. Thank you!
1} The notion from Bill O’Hanlon, in which he encourages clients by asking them “How do you cope with that?” and then focusing on the moments during the previous week when they did well coping; how they felt and what they did. Encouraging the client by complimenting them on showing up for themselves by attending the therapy session.
2) When Dr. Borysenko talked about the trust exercise she uses with clients of sitting on the floor and having the client lean back into her hands and learning more about the individual’s somatic response. I often wish to find ways to incorporate trust exercises into the session and found this method to be very helpful.
3) When Dr. Seigel discussed the notion that the meaning of kindness and smiling can be differently interpreted by clients depending on [who was] the perpetrator and their demeanor. Additionally, laying out a psycho-ed map in which the client decides where to go and how to get there.
4) All of the presenters were excellent and I wish I could afford to be a gold subscriber but I am just starting up my practice after many years away from work as a therapist and the expenses are enormous. I won’t miss a session though and I am sorry to have missed the 6/20 session but I just learned about this wonderful opportunity today.
I agree with all the points made by Anne Rakip, but I replied in a more generalized manner. Being a recording artist performer that has worked in the health care field which included alternative healing practices, dance therapy, and more, I also have personal experience in life that propelled me to write songs dealing with people afflicted with trauma, and related topics.
Jennifer Dreaper
Good evening, Thank You so very much for such an enlightening, educational and enriching experience. I have had a very detached client this week, who had lacked emotional bonding. The session with her was very challenging. Today’s webinar will equip me with the psychological tools to help the client free herself from her lifelong entrapment of pain and isolation. Thank You once again. Much appreciated.
I am a surgeon, and I related to being lashed back when being kind to a few patients with chronic illness or cancer. Usually I try to make them feel safe and that they have a choice in their life…but now I see some might need a more neutral but equally self safe approach…
Bessel says that meeting a smiling therapist can evoke the trauma reaction and not a safety experience in patient. But that is only true if the original response to the smiling perpetrator didn’t evoke intense dissociation. The smiling therapist may not be experienced in the trauma wound state but in a more healthy neutralized part of the patient. Of course this may be too fine a filagree on the point that Bessel knows and is choosing to sidestep to make the greater point.
Once I’m not a physician (I’m a Physician’s Coding Educator) and I am enjoying all this information VERY much I will send this website info to my Psychologists and Psychiatrists for them to get to know this fantastic work you are providing for all. Thank you SO much for providing these sessions for free!
Great presentation for experienced therapists. I loved the input from many long term practitioners. The talk back part really does a good sum up and review. Ruth is extraordinary…thanks
“Trauma does not occur in a vacuum….healthy relationships can be a catalyst for healing!” It is important to understand the dangers of isolation that so many survivors want to employ. Helping them to understand this with therapeutic support is valuable.
Thank you for this terrific webinar. So many useful tips especially regarding the topic of being nice to clients may be triggering for them. A lot of food for thought….
I appreciated comments about coming across as triggering through kindness behaviors. I also appreciated specific empowering things a clinician to say to evoke choice in getting to explore triggered issues. I also really liked using resources, or strengths to
“catch” a client doing things right, well, or improved in the moment, even if it’s the exception to their overall behaviors.
Incredibly helpful. A number of things resonated deeply, and the discussion about cortisol was eye opening. Love this, so grateful.
I’m not a therapist, though I did work as a mental health professional decades ago when my memories were blocked. I come to these webinars when they are free, that is the only time that I can so I also want to thank everyone who pays for the Gold Program. Usually, I feel better after one of these, but I’m going through the worst time I’ve ever experienced. I will likely be homeless again when my rental assistance is over in March. I have a LOT of medical problems. I’ve been trying to hide from people because of Covid and I won’t be able to do that from living in my tiny car. I’ve far outlived my life expectancy and know I am nearing the end of my life. I’ve got to get my books published, first. I’m totally alone, always have been, really. I’ve never known what people think about me and I go back and forth wanting so much to believe that I matter, but expecting rejection just as you talked about here tonight. And I cried when you talked about pets, as my landlord won’t let me have one and I couldn’t afford one anyway. I wouldn’t be alive if not for pets in my past. But what is the worst part of things is that after decades of fighting for mental health parity, Medicare is now exempt from it and so I can’t get a therapist when I need one most. That is why I must attend these workshops when I can, why I called a crisis number last night and will possibly call that crisis number tonight. Certainly not a secure attachment figure, but someone to talk with. Sorry. Connie/ConnieJean founder, SEASCAT.org
Sending love.
It has enabled me to understand more about my children who, one was born physically very big, but was of a very low weight, beyond reasonable explanation. Now I can relate this to the fact that she might have been affected while in the womb, by the enormous stress & trauma that the mother had suffered throughout the pregnancy, leading to the baby being delivered by vacuum extraction, as the mother could not.
Thank you so much for these wonderful webinars, I am an early childhood counsellor with children from refugee backgrounds and see the impact systemic refugee trauma has on development and regulation in early childhood. I had many take aways from today as most of my work is in situations where there is disrupted attachment between the parents and children. Enhancing capacity for secure attachment is key to the child’s development and regulation. I liked the comment about immersing myself in the chaos and rigidity and letting the cracks illuminate a path forward. Many thanks, Shauna.
I’m not sure I can say exactly what I’ll be using from here – I’ve got a lot of great things to think about, look into and draw from.
I do know I’ll be reading more on epigenetics and I know one person this aspect of generational trauma will resonate with.
I continue to be inspired by the embodiment experience.
I’ve heard my own experience of the ‘difficulties’ of healing itself expressed as the need to help clients build strategies to manage positive emotions (which was wonderful – both validating what I’d realised, but also from a subtly different perspective, which helps me expand on my experience).
It’s an ’embarassment of riches’ 😀
A great ‘problem’ to have.
Thank you.
My identical twin and I were born at six months. She died 3 days later, suffocating from phlegm in her undeveloped lungs. Decades later I discovered I had a prenatal stroke in a brain ventricle.
So I am fascinated by how prenatal intervention can affect mother and fetus.
But also: having missed that third trimester where brain, ears, eyes, etc. develop fully, how do I at 72 work with that? As hair cells in the cochlea die, my brain falls behind in processing sound into meaning. My hearing and speech comprehension decline.
Tonight, I wonder, even without a PhD, how do I help people my age or younger create ways to bloom, to recognize their own wisdom, creating a future rather than just waiting to die.
Many of the interventions suggested here are part of the diction and grammar of American Sign Language: facial expression, movement, rhythm, direction. How do we make this information accessible to deaf, hard of hearing people, those with delayed processing disorder?
I love this series and suggest that adding captions and a separate transcript-only package can open the collective wisdom to equal communication access.
Thank you,
Patricia
Thank so much for this terrific topic. I think what Bessel said and what Ron Siegel elaborated on is so significant.
But there was lots more that stood out for me – too numerous to reveal here! However, most does link in with research I did entitled: “Lives unseen: unacknowledged trauma of non-disordered, competent Adult Children Of Parents with a Severe Mental Illness” at The University of Melbourne, Australia. If people google my name Suzette Misrachi that research should come up. It also touches on the short articles I’ve been invited to write by a psychiatrist for an e-publication (aimed at psychiatrists and various mental health practitioners) which I then put on medium.com for free for the general public, again googling my full name should bring those short articles up on the medium.com website.
I so appreciate this program. Thanks to the great NICABM team and all their very wise presenters! Suzette
Thank you for the availability of this collection. I often talk about creating an allyship between right and left brain, complicated by the fact that they do not speak the same language. I also point out the the desire and intent to trust is innate in our gregarious selves, our problem is to figure out who is trustworthy. This is the point where this video helped by validating what I have noticed as a professional working in trauma therapy, that recognition of social cues is especially very difficult for the C-PTSD. Body work is part of our session work, I do it at the same time as the client which I find helps bridge the zoom divide. Thank you again
I am loving the sessions and its only day 2. This has made me think about my own clients, my own practice and how to improve/ be more equipped and confident when supporting clients.
Thank you for sharing this with us. I am looking forward to class 3.
I wish I could sign up for the gold subscription!