How to Work with Traumatic Memory That Is Embedded in the Nervous System
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with Peter Levine, PhD ;
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with Peter Levine, PhD; Pat Ogden, PhD; Bessel van der Kolk, MD; and Ruth Buczynski, PhD
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After 20 years battling my own personal trauma, using different therapies at different points, I’m still curious as to why certain therapies work better at different stages of the trauma process and I’m wondering if anyone is researching this? My preference was EMDR, trauma focused CBT, more EMDR, Emotion Focused Freedom Technique, psychotherapy/ hypnosis and finally counselling on my childhood. This pattern suggests to me we regress through time with most recent trauma first but my gut says maybe most recent is triggering the distant past and there’s a looping going on? I’m not at the end of the process yet but I’m close. I don’t know if the neuro scientists can see a pattern here in terms of what works and why? i.e. do we need to process things in a particular order (right- left first and then 3 layers)? Is the sequence based of therapies based on the evolution of the brain? I hope my 20 years of self reflection can give someone a tip as to how to solve the riddle- good luck… I have faith in you
Thank you so much.
I am an amateur enthusiast in the UK who has followed this field for more than 10 years for personal reasons and also to grow a tool kit for dealing with people I encounter periodically in informal situations. The intellectual basis for Procedural memory that has been explained here, gives a firm foundation as to how to process, contain and direct attention to non-verbal cues. There is just the right amount of content, context, and anecdotes of practice to bring it all elegantly together in this presentation.
I cannot thank you enough for the opportunity to get this information here for free. It is high quality and so well put together.
Amazing!
Phyllis
Thanks for all that you do. Sessions 2 and 3 have been packed with useful ideas and illuminating connections.
Session 1 put me off a bit with so many references to different parts of the brain and even to components of DNA. I understand that grounding trauma in physical body structures might be validating for some clients. But at the end of the day, you know, I can’t see my own hippocampus! So I can’t test any of these assertions, either as a therapist or as a trauma survivor. And some of the science seemed a little speculative, e.g. causation did not always seem to be adequately established.
I was also concerned by the central place given, in Session 1, to “mindfulness” and “being present” as the cure for damaged bodily/brain structures. At age 18 I was a vegan new-ager who meditated deeply for literally two hours every day. I was also carrying a huge load of unhealed trauma that kept leading me back into new, horrible, freshly-traumatising situations.
And more mundanely, a client who is taught mindfulness practices can feel like a failure if these practices do not bring them relief. This is more an issue of therapist clumsiness, perhaps – trying to use meditation as a bandaid rather than as one tool in the toolbox. But it’s an under-discussed problem, in my view.
So I was very happy to see more nuance introduced today – pointing out that different kinds of mindfulness practice achieve different ends, and that inciting strong positive emotions is not safe for everyone. (It isn’t just that this can be triggering, but it can also be a way for the client to auto-gaslight, ignore boundary signals, and thus expose themself to further harm.) So today was a welcome deepening of the principles introduced earlier.
Also, every case study the speakers have mentioned has been super useful.
Thank you, NICABM. You do amazing work.
Hi Katrina,
I agree completely about the unintended consequence of the client feeling like a failure and/or triggering painful realization of how little love they experienced. Ron is really adamant about the caution needed when using meditation. I think he has written a book recently that covers this topic in depth.
Thanks for drawing attention to this.
Mary
Thank You once again to the learned presenters for broadening my scope of understanding and applying practical skills during the trauma sessions at my practice. I am extremely grateful. Thank You once again
Thank you. I am not a clinician. I was a psychology/philosophy major many years ago in college. The ‘why’ of everything has always been my passion. I’m so impressed with the movement in this field. I work in prayer ministry helping people heal. There are so many crossover techniques/wisdom. My understanding for myself and everyone I encounter has greatly expanded. There are no words to adequately express my excitement and joy at the development of this work. Finally we have stopped fragmenting the human person and are seeing and appreciating the whole being ( and how everything in the person cognitively/spiritually/physically) is truly one.
Thank you for a wonderful presentation. I particularly enjoyed listening to Pat Ogden. One specific take away is the suggestion to ask clients to articulate the resources that they used to survive the traumatic event. I am also impressed by how clearly the speakers made their points. This is going to help me improve the psychoeducation that I provide to my clients.
Some resources that are used to help the survivor survive traumatic events would be a hindrance and danger to healing..like leaving the body..disassociating…self harm etc…we need to be careful ….
Hello everyone,
Dr Ruth-your comment towards the end of the session regarding who benefits from this touched me. It is indeed so far reaching-family,community.
A person who finds love within at any time and certainly after trauma can be of great service to the world 🥰
Sooo much to learn…
Thank you Dr Ruth et al for your deep insights into healing trauma❣️
Thank you so much. Love the pacing & the various experts.
So many take aways.
With gratitude.
I am not a clinician, however my wife has been traumatized as a child and the her scabs were pulled open again as an adult in her previous marriage. My tribe where and how I grew up was never exposed to believing in this kind of care. This has opened my mind and heart to try to understand why my wife does some of the things she does. This has made me more compassionate to her trauma. My culture says, “get over it”, stop with all the BS. Everybody has been through something.” Thank you I wish I was on for the first two sessions. I just want to hug my wife right now, and not say anything.
Thank you for helping me understand myself better. I’m the grown only child of two narcissists who has C-PTSD/clinical anxiety& depression. I’ve spent my life working in therapy but my brain still is on hyper-overdrive 24/7. I want to heal my brain..need to learn this info because I’m on a limited income and can’t find anyone near me to do EMDR that is covered by my insurance.
Carolyn
There is an EMDR app. I’ve heard good things about it. It may be an option in combination with all that’s being taught here. Dr Mate Gabor is also amazing. Peace
Check into brainspotting also. Some therapists will work at reduced cost.
Thank you so much. I have always brushed over grounding but now I see that spending more time with it can be so valuable with regards to trauma. I am also increasingly fascinated by the somatic domain and how these sensations link to trauma (esp if preverbal or implicit). A lot of these resonate too with what I have learned in my schema therapy training (e.g providing safety in the therapeutic relationship, and rescripting). I was also very touched by the account of Haim’s somatic experiencing. This could be particularly useful in an asian context where there is a higher incidence of somatization of tough emotions and experiences. I hope this info will help me augment my schema practice.
Excellent, Impressive, very useful. You are doing a great service to humanity. Please keep it up! And stay blessed!
Prof Dr Gulzar Ahmad, a Counseling Psychologist & President: Pakistan Council on Family Relations (www.familyrelation.org).
Appreciated the comments about recognizing overstimulation from some ‘therapeutic interventions’ and how ‘readiness’ of the psyche is important. Sometimes it’s important to ‘back off’ interventions such as journaling as the client is not yet ready to do this.
Thank you, very helpful!
Wonderful series. Some of the methods for working with trauma sound like EMDR but more fluid and flexible.
EMDR gives a structure and then with the ways that these presenters describe paying attention to the reactions and facial expression, and body movements adds a layer of depth that I find very helpful. Resourcing is essential and also going slowly and I would say first build up a trusting relationship and then try to do the deeper attachment and memory retrieval work. Thank you very much,
I am still in training and have just finished my first year but am learning so very much which I hope to integrate into my future practice. Thanks so much for your broadcast.
Very resourceful
Thank you
Thanks again for the great sessions and reminders that trauma work is a slow and whole body, mind ,emotional and spiritual that also focuses on strength building as a groundwork for safe healing .
So valuable, I’m deeply grateful! Thank you
Again, an amazing session. I am always floored by your skills and compassion. Thank you.
I’m curious Marie . would you indicate what was the updated version of the term “committed suicide”?
I can help with this as I loss my son, Jeffrey, 16 yo, to suicide 14 years ago and have been in the mental health field (psychiatric RN) ever since. The phrase “committed suicide” makes it sounds like your loved one or client has committed a crime. It is not a crime. It is mental illness. If someone died by cancer or anything else, when asked how they died, you wouldn’t say they “committed cancer”? Of course not. You’d say they “died by cancer”.
Then the phrase “completed suicide” came about. Now I believe we are using “suicided”.
Unlike other ways of dying, when people die by suicide, the focus is on their death, more so than their life… and that needs to change, and we can help that happen – in their own time, always.
Hello,
Our posted times are 11:00am, 2:00pm, and 6:00pm all in Eastern United States time zone and correlate with the presentation times.
Dear Ruth and Team
I now understand that my poor posture and weak muscle tone, till today has been remarkably influenced by my home environment of parental strife, shifting boundaries and psychological style discipline, both parents working, dominating/controlling/authoritarian “guardian” matriarchal next-door-living grandmother, my nervous anxious critical mother, her compliant keep the peace husband and so on and more.
I was sent to ballet to walk up straight and put my shoulders back.
Somehow, as a child, I knew that the ability to stand up straight came from my inside.
Thank you for showing me the source of my current fearful, timid disposition.
I’m beginning to enjoy me and my “inside” is growing taller.
I value what you send me and hereby register for further free webinars.
I missed the webinars of the 17 + 18 January. Please detail how to listen to them. Though I’m not a practitioner, I glean much from your webinars.
Best of blessings and kind regards
Ingrid (64yrs old)
Thank you
I enjoy learning, it’s very rewarding.
About .. Old memoris again and again …..What is the perpose?
Good idea to ask.
Walking meditation focus out and in is á Good to do.
The light in the heart, yessss
And meany other things,
Thank you all, love it!
I live in Southern Oregon, The Rogue Valley. Last year in September over 2000 people lost their homes in a fire that very quickly rushed through 2 towns that burned them to the ground. Luckily, no person was killed in these fires as our community moved very quickly to help people evacuate in a moments notice. Hundreds of pets were lost or very badly injured. Luckily, the community really rallied to do their best to help support people. It has created a housing crisis in Southern Oregon where it is extremely challenging to find housing and the expense has gone up significantly. I give you this context to have basic background of what has occurred here. Now people are either in a status of trying to move forward and finding housing but still hundreds are displaced. 4 hotels have converted to be temporary housing while the cities are cleaning up the disaster and attempting to rebuild. People often talk about the lack of certainty and stability. Many have had to move multiple times and nearly half faced months of homelessness or homelessness. The system has shown a major breakdown in helping. Resources are limited and people are going from one stress to another. Some have been experiencing a crisis for over a year. This situation has tempted farmers addicts in recovery to fall off the wagon and resort to former coping mechanisms. This has only exacerbated the circumstances for them as this system is set up to remove and lock out people with substance abuse issues or major mental health issues. Our streets are riddled with unwell people. The city kicked out over 500 people that had set up a camp in the parks. So once again people were homeless and without proper support. Many “support” systems here are geared towards helping people who are able to manage their daily lives on a more functional status. Many are neglected. The one program created specifically to support “fire victims” even in title treat clients like victims. Check ins at meetings ask people to share their trauma story with the group at their weekly meetings. I see this as a form of retraumatizing the survivors and am not sure how to proceed in being the most helpful in this environment. I am not a doctor but I am a resource advocate and have supported and helped survivors of sexual trauma and domestic violence for nearly 20 years. I learned many helping skills in my work and through my education and continuing practices and trainings. I would like to help create an environment that is more nurturing and safe for clients. I feel that is the first steps to healing is to feel safe in the NOW. Many do not feel that way. The outreach that I have seen has folks living in fear of being evacuated again or being forced to fill out new forms or living in fear that if they complain or not follow rules they will be homeless, so people at hotels do not answer their doors. I just happen to coincidently live in these hotels. I am here not as a fire survivor but other circumstances. Because I am here most residents have assumed that I was a fire victim and talk to me out of a sense of comradeship that I should know what they experienced and understand it better because they think I went through it too. I avoid sharing my personal experience with them however I was a fire victim in 2006. My circumstances are quite different than theirs but I can relate. I went to a trained therapist and have done the work and continue to do self care. I feel responsible as a human, neighbor, community member, trained helper, etc to want to help support these folks s they transition from a sense of victimhood to survivors. I have made many notes on these presentations and will do a considerable amount of research over the next couple weeks in order to prepare a small presentation on changing the current approach in helping the “victims”. I will start by asking the verbiage to change in how we refer to these folks. They are “survivors”. My focus in creating safe spaces as that is my comfort level of training and education. I want to further provide better resources to better support our survivors as they transition to new “homes”. I hope to be a part in the planning process in rebuilding the towns of Talent and Phoenix. I feel that is important in setting the foundation to have safety and certainty again. I would like to help foster a better safety plan and help folks feel more educated and secure in a plan to ease fear of another major disaster happening. The Zone Captains program has just recently attempted to have 2 sessions a week that people can talk to counselors at a first come basis. I am not sure how effective that schedule and inconsistent therapy is for folks but it is better than what they have been getting. Our valley moves on and many who did not have to evacuate have expressed on social media that “people should just heal and move on already”. Even our government has restricted helping funding and people are still having to fight for and ask for basic needs. Some feel that our victim system is fostering victim mentality and seek for people to “force” the survivors to “get over it”. This is quite the challenge here. I can see many opportunities for healing, growth, education, teaching moments and more. I am only one person though. So I do hope to recruit other trained professionals to help with this multi-tiered situation and system. I am doing what I can and know how to do within the scope of my abilities and trying to branch out to learn more. I look forward to learning more here. I am very thankful for your presentation. The timing has been so helpful to me and my quest. Thank you.
I do welcome ideas, resources and support.
I am an Art Therapist/ counsellor and a wounded healer recovering from pre verbal trauma and CSA so grateful for these accessible sessions. Todays was excellent one of the best I have seen/ heard…I am wondering if you would consider selling individual sessions or do a payment plan for the complete set as I cannot afford the package now. I know that makes it harder for you and you have reduced price etc. Hoping… Thankyou.
Thank you for such a wealth of insight generating education. It is interesting to hear about flashbacks as self-punishment, I recently encountered this in a therapy session and it perplexed me. I learned that disgust, a blackened sense of self-perception, the experience that this will never end (helplessness) caused the client to feel they desire “being in” that horrifying situation they had experienced a year ago. Thus, the self-punishment and flashbacks sustained each other, prolonging the person’s suffering.
I wonder if there’s a manual / workbooks that guide in implementing interventions alongside this knowledge and understanding of the nervous system and trauma impacts. As well as case study / conceptualized cases demonstrating the experts’ work.
I find the presentations moving very fast and for some who process slower, a lot could pass us by. That’s why I ask about the above because this is very helpful, reliable information. I have just began my career in working with trauma and this content is so relevant.
I was hesitant about introducing mindfulness techniques at the beginning of my group sessions. I was afraid that the clients would not like them. It is good to know that my intuition was spot on, and that grounding to the environment promotes safety. Next I will discuss creating an individual Grounding Kit with the group.
Pat Ogden’s physical demonstrations was great and the critical insights provided by all the others were absolute eye-openers! Lots stood out for me that directly links with work done from the population I worked with and importantly, links in directly with research I did entitled: “Lives unseen: unacknowledged trauma of non-disordered, competent Adult Children Of Parents with a Severe Mental Illness” at The University of Melbourne, Australia. If people google my name Suzette Misrachi that research should come up. It also touches on the short articles on trauma and grief I’ve been invited to write by a psychiatrist for an e-publication (aimed at psychiatrists and various mental health practitioners) which I then put on medium for free for the general public, again googling my full name should bring those short articles up on the medium website.
Thank for this terrific topic. I greatly value all of your wise presenters! Suzette
part of establishing my trustworthiness is to thank the client for being willing to trust me even before having worked together. I describe how we will be skilling up and then learning how to “step in and step out” of the uncomfortable feelings and/or any particular aspect of the trauma. From the very beginning I illustrate how and why I ask the client to say “No” to me at any point of our work that is not workable or true about our exchange. This has proven to be a profound moment and crucial exercise that they remember at closing of our course of psychotherapy.
Pat Ogden’s physical demonstrations was great and the critical insights provided by all the others were absolute eye-openers! Lots stood out for me that directly links with work done from the population I worked with and importantly, links in directly with research I did entitled: “Lives unseen: unacknowledged trauma of non-disordered, competent Adult Children Of Parents with a Severe Mental Illness” at The University of Melbourne, Australia. If people google my name Suzette Misrachi that research should come up. It also touches on the short articles on trauma and grief I’ve been invited to write by a psychiatrist for an e-publication (aimed at psychiatrists and various mental health practitioners) which I then put on medium.com for free for the general public, again googling my full name should bring those short articles up on the medium.com website.
Thank so much NICABM team for this terrific topic. I greatly value all of your wise presenters! Suzette
Hi, can you recommend some books with case studies from start to finish about how these procedures are used and when to shift strategy?
It is important to take an appropriate pace. It is important to integrate the three memory types slowly. Are there books or videos that show this done specifically with clients from start to finish?
I like your sessions.
Mirroring a client’s body resources.
The power of imagination. So often overlooked. Thanks for reminding me!!
tried out one of the interventions yesterday and it worked beautifully!
Thanks
I found it very validating to hear the speakers in these NICABM webinars repeatedly highlighting the importance of the approach I take in supporting clients in their process of change and/or healing, whether the client is coming to me due to trauma history or not.
Although I am a LPC, I am also a Laban/Bartenieff Certified Movement Analyst (CMA) as well as in training as a certified BodyMind Psychotherapist (BMP). Because of my training as a CMA I have such a deep wealth of training and experience of observing the patterns and subtle changes of the expressivity of the client, in stllness & movement of their body, in body parts, in their whole, in their energetic body as well as observing the patterns and changes in their voice and in the context, content and quality of verbal sharing. I also have a vast understanding of developmental patterning as it affects adults (which I have found very helpful in supporting a client to explore healing related to pre-verbal trauma) and functional anatomy (which I have found very helpful in supporting the nervous system from a body perspective).
In addition as someone deeply deeply in-training and practice of BMP, I appreciate that I no longer approach myself, the world or my clients from a mindbody perspective. Regardless of whether I am working with a client who has expeirenced trauma or not, the bodymind approach supports me in resourcing myself more fully into the real, sensory, living present moment (known as embodiment practice) so that, professionally, I am able to more fully support the client to safely resource into the experience of the present moment and/or safely explore the patterns of procedural memory (of body and/or mind) that is triggering (consciously or unconsciously) experiences within them in this present moement. In my approach, embodiment (mine and the client’s) is a foundational practice for supporting safe processing & repatterning, also known as as integrating.
I appreciate the opportunity to feel myself part of greater community of practitioners approaching healing from this same sort of perspective, and to hear this information from some of the people who have done the groundbreaking work in this field. Many thanks for this opportunity.
Thank you, thank you Ruth, Peter, Pat and Bessel for sharing your combined practice-based wisdom in such a critical field of practice. I have been listening in from here in New Zealand as I rise for the day and prepared to leave for my work as a health Psychologist….. And will be using some of these key insights about embedded trauma with my first client of the day, particularly in terms of the ‘resourcing first’ part. Wonderful reminder too on the scaffolding of our memories and how trauma impacts these in unique ways….. Keep up the great work! And if any of you ever come to NZ (one day, surely, our borders will reopen!) , please come to Palmerston North! I will be an enthusiastic host! Namaste, Joanna
Happy this is going to NZ I once lived there for 13 years
To the 2 anonymous folk ..times are N Y , USA so convert to the country you live in 😉
I’m in Australia so I watch at 6am.
This Presentation is Life Changing !
Thankyou!
I will purchase the Gold membership when I can afford primarily to have the resources for staff where I volunteer who assist traumatised clients constantly.
It helps to have some knowledge, Insight n Practical skills to suggest/impart .
Again ..Thankyou All. – U Rock!!
– neecy maree
While I rarely practice clinical Social Work, I do work as a front line worker with the Holocaust survivors and find very useful this webinar even for better understanding my clients and their behavior patterns. I might not actively counsel them, but just the fact that I am better educated about how their nervous system might react to trauma, including trauma from the nonverbal stage of life, helps me to create a better relationship with them. I can integrate some of the stabilizing technics into my work with them on a daily basis.
I also found the information useful in terms of self-evaluation: acknowledging that I am, both as a worker and an individual, may carry some of the traumatic memories embedded into my body and my behavior. If I become aware of this, I can take better care of myself and be a better social worker.
Thank you so much for providing this series for free. I am not a therapist, but I feel this series is fascinating. I have had trauma in my childhood and am raising a RAD child. I feel this series articulates trauma and helps me understand myself and my family.
Thank you!
I am not a thetapyst but am suffering PTSD. I had therapyst for EMDR, however he messed me about and eventualy just disapeared with feble excuse. I wonder what kind of therapyst does that. And how can someone w PTSD address this therapyst where PTSD is result of domestic abuse and violence where authority presents abuse and is feared. I am left more scared to trust a therapyst. How do I identify good one, how do I get help to heal and desesetize 22 years of trauma effect? The session today help me understand lots of things about trauma and approaches. Ty. Am sad have no funds to pay for subscription and watch first two sessions.
Our company does not offer referrals, nor do we release any information about the practitioners who’ve participated in any of our trainings.
We can, however, recommend that you check out this database through Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us
Through this site, you’re able to search for therapists and support groups based on location, and filter through the results based on a variety of factors – specialties, approaches, and methods.
I am recently retired from a career in geriatric medical social work. I am reminded of the first time I heard about working with trauma, from a friend who was in a primary therapeutic practice. We were struck by the similarity between the “broken clock” of the trauma survivor and that of the patient with advanced dementia. Has anyone seen any studies in this area?
I’m not a therapist. But I am a product of ambivalent attachment, married to a person who is a product of avoidant attachment. I am learning to deal with my shame; I am also learning how to support my partner. All of this is extraordinarily helpful to me.
This has been a wonderful seminar with such wise and learned
People. I think the pacing of work is vitally important ( an example also would be with traumatised animals) and a gentle and slow approach to gain their trust and it is exactly the same with human beings! Also the use of resources within and trying out different ways as of course every body is so unique
Thank you for yet another wonderful session. The importance of grounding and pacing were the two things that stood out most for me, I found these very useful. I also found it interesting to hear about the client who used flashbacks as a form of punishment.
I am enjoying your sessions and will be buying the gold subscription . I think this is brilliant stuff bringing together understanding of lot of things I have learnt before but adding layers of understanding and science
Thank you
Jan
Sheffield UK
I was very disappointed, as I tuned in to one of the available time options (2:00 pm) only to find it was wrapping up. So yes, as another participant just said, your posted times are not accurate!
ET not CT or PT, etc.
This is provided at Eastern Standard Time so for example if you live in Mountain Time Zone, the presentation is at 11:00 am where in the Eastern Time Zone it is 9:00 am so please check your time adapter this is excellent stuff.
Hello,
Our posted times are 11:00am, 2:00pm, and 6:00pm all in Eastern United States time zone and correlate with the presentation times.
Like many of us, I learned a lot of the information presented here in grad school. Bill O’ Hanlon is correct when stated we learn the what and the why of dysfunction, but not too much on solid interventions.
I desperately want to purchase the gold subscription for practical and effective interventions in relation to my clients who complain of dissociating, “zoning out”, or sleeping to avoid stressors.
I am grateful to hear some ideas peppered throughout the series and I am hoping that if I purchase the series there will be sufficient strategies to utilize in the room.
hello
I have purchased many of the NICABM programs. they are excellent. They include much more additional information that can be printed out.
It is great to learn the up to date latest thoughts by the top thinkers in the country and world. l am anxious to get the program and watch it again! THANKS SO MUCH!
I valued the insight into repeated flashbacks as a form of self punishment as this awareness can now allow an opportunity to address this factor. Also the information on Procedural Memory becoming stuck and how working through the trigger can help resolve it and help it come to completion and allow client to move past it.